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 Post subject: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 6
Intro:

I am trying to track down all of Southern Railway's modernized heavyweight passenger cars and have compiled a list of information I have gathered so far. Southern converted several passenger cars at their Hayne and Chattanooga shops starting in the 1940s in order for the cars to receive upgrades, and in some cases, a more modern streamlined appearance.

I will break up the list into different parts, starting with coaches in Part One. Partitioned coaches, combines, dinette-coaches, dining cars, and baggage cars will follow in different parts.

Part One: Coaches

Southern took several coaches from their 1500 and 1600 series, built by Pullman starting in 1922, and converted them from walkover seats to reclining chair cars with air conditioning. Some cars received all new welded sides and sealed windows while others had hardly any exterior appearance change, even retaining their clerestory roofs and open windows. Each series will be separated by date modernized and with a description of appearance.

Converted 1940. 46-seats. Round roof, single sealed windows, riveted car body

1000 (ex-1653) to TVRM in Chattanooga, TN.

1001 (ex-1660) to Southeast Louisiana Chapter NRHS, to Heart of Dixie Railroad Club of Birmingham, AL, to Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum in Calera, AL. Scrapped 2011

1002 (ex-1662) to Mississippi Railroad and Transportation Museum as "Leaf River," to Waccamaw Coast Line, to Station at Cedar Yard in Charlotte, NC. Scrapped 2004 or 2005

1003 (ex-1667) to New Orleans Chapter NRHS, to William Savage of Tampa, to Wellington Station Condominiums in Ormond Beach, FL.

1004 (ex-1672) to Charleston Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1005 (ex-1675) to Heart of Dixie Railroad Club for use on Southern steam excursions and named "Magic City," to Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum in Calera, AL. Scrapped 2011

1006 (ex-1678) to Old Dominion Chapter NRHS in Richmond, VA.

Converted 1947. 46-seats. Round roof, long sealed windows, welded car body

1007 (ex-1574) ???

1008 (ex-1576) to TVRM in Chattanooga, TN.

1009 (ex-1577) ???

1010 (ex-1580) ???

1011 (ex-1581) ???

1012 (ex-1584) ???

1013 (ex-1587) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1014 (ex-1589) to TVRM?, to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1015 (ex-1592) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1016 (ex-1601) to Wiregrass Chapter NRHS, to Kentucky Railway Museum, to Waccamaw Coast Line?, to Station at Cedar Yard in Charlotte, NC. Scrapped 2004 or 2005

1017 (ex-1605) to Wiregrass Chapter NRHS, to unknown party in Warms Springs, GA, to unknown party in Hogansville, GA.

1018 (ex-1608) to Wiregrass Chapter NRHS, to unknown party in Warms Springs, GA, to unknown party in Hogansville, GA.

1019 (ex-1612) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1020 (ex-1643) ???

1021 (ex-1651) to Twickenham Station restaurant in Huntsville, AL, to unknown party in Harvest, AL.

1022 (ex-1659) ???

1023 (ex-1527) to Douglasville, GA?

1024 (ex-1676) ???

1025 (ex-1654) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1026 (ex-1647) ???

1027 (ex-1652) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1028 (ex-1669) ???

1029 (ex-1682) to Mississippi Railroad and Transportation Museum. Current Location?

1030 (ex-1619) ???

1031 (ex-1572) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

Converted 1954 from former Pullman heavyweight sleeping cars. 52-seats. Round roof, long sealed windows, welded car body

1032 (ex-"La Fontaine Club") converted to Southern office car 19 "Buena Vista," to Norfolk Southern 23 "Buena Vista."

1033 (ex-"Point Airy") to Andersonville, GA, to TVRM?

1034 (ex-"Point Vincente") to Southern MOW 960422, to Norfolk Southern 960422 and stored in Roanoke, VA. Still there?

1035 (ex-"Point Allerton") converted to Southern open air excursion car 1070 "W. Graham Claytor Jr.," damaged in Dismal Swamp wreck, to VMT in Roanoke, VA.

1036 (ex-"Spring Brook Club") to Southern MOW 960419, to Norfolk Southern 960419, to TVRM?

1037 (ex-"Hazen") to TVRM in Chattanooga, TN.

1038 (ex-"Windsor Locks") to Southern MOW, to East Tennessee Railcar Services in Oak Ridge, TN.

1039 (ex-"Fort Michie") to Southern MOW, to Twickenham Station Restaurant in Mobile, AL, to bail bonds office in Mobile, AL. *According to a post in the "Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars" thread, this car was renumbered to 1040 at some point before entering MOW service.

1040 (ex-"Francois Xavier Martin") to Southern MOW, to East Tennessee Railcar Services in Oak Ridge, TN. *According to a post in the "Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars" thread, this car was renumbered to 1039 at some point before entering MOW service.

1041 (ex-"Windsor Castle") to CSX 994008 "Mississppi," sold in 2018 to unknown party. Current Location?

1042 (ex-"Robert Toombs") to Conrail, to GSMR as 25 "Piedmont" in Dillsboro, NC.

1043 (ex-"Seaside") to Conrail, to GSMR as 26 "Southland" in Dillsboro, NC.

1044 (ex-"Moon Brook Club") converted to Southern office car 15 "Alabama," to Norfolk Southern 9 "Alabama."

1045 (ex-"Sea Island") to Southern MOW, to LASTA in New Orleans, LA. Scrapped 2012 or 2013

1046 (ex-"Robert E. Lee") to unknown party in Greenville, SC.

Converted 1948. 48-seats. Clerestory roof, open windows, riveted car body

1050 (ex-1648) ???

1051 (ex-1645) ???

1052 (ex-1609) to Charleston Chapter NRHS, to Napa Valley Wine Train.

1053 (ex-1644) ???

1054 (ex-1588) to Charleston Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1055 (ex-1656) to Old Dominion Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1056 (ex-1595) converted to Southern open air excursion car "Lookout Mountain," to Mount Hood RR, to SLRG on the Rio Grande Scenic.

1057 (ex-1629) to Old Dominion Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1058 (ex-1683) to TVRM as "1688" in Chattanooga, TN.

1059 (ex-???) ???

1060 (ex-1602) ???

1061 (ex-1621) ???

1062 (ex-???) to Charleston Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1063 (ex-1639) to Charleston Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1064 (ex-1642) to Louisiana Arts and Science Museum in Baton Rouge, LA, to Hammond, LA for a planned children's museum, to McComb Railroad Museum. Scrapped 2012

Converted 1955. 46-seats. Round roof, single sealed windows, riveted car body

1065 (ex-1636) to Atlanta Chapter NRHS, to Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth, GA.

1066 (ex-1649) to TVRM, to Waccamaw Coast Line, to Carolina Southern as "S.A. Beasley," to SLRG.

1067 (ex-1670) to Mount Hood RR, to SLRG as "Gila Valley."

1068 (ex-1640) to Mount Hood RR, to SLRG as "San Luis Valley."

1069 (ex-1668) converted to Southern open air excursion car "Missionary Ridge." Destroyed in Dismal Swamp wreck and subsequently scrapped.

1070 (ex-1658) to Augusta Chapter NRHS, to Augusta Museum of History in Augusta, GA.

1071 (ex-1677) to TVRM in Chattanooga, TN.

1072 (ex-1681) to TVRM in Chattanooga, TN.

1073 (ex-1665) to North Alabama Railroad Museum as 4673.

1074 (ex-1680) ???

1075 (ex-1641) to Atlanta Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1076 (ex-1655) to TVRM, to private owner in Sumiton, AL, to Grants Mill Station shopping center in Irondale, AL.

1077 (ex-1663) to Winston-Salem Chapter NRHS, to NCTM in Spencer, NC.

1078 (ex-1671) to Atlanta Chapter NRHS, to Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth, GA.

1079 (ex-1674) to North Alabama Railroad Museum as 4679.

Converted ??? 48-seats. Clerestory roof, open windows, riveted car body

1080 (ex-1625) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1081 (ex-1630) to NCTM in Spencer, NC.

1082 (ex-1631) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1083 (ex-1632) ???

1084 (ex-1635) to Charleston Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1085 (ex-1637) to Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel in Chattanooga, TN.

1086 (ex-1657) to NCTM in Spencer, NC.

1087 (ex-1666) ???

1088 (ex-1679) to Old Dominion Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1089 (ex-1661) to Old Dominion Chapter NRHS. Current location?

1090 (ex-1673) to Charleston Chapter NRHS, to Napa Valley Wine Train?


Sources:

Southern Railway System Passenger Car Diagrams 1957.

Railway Passenger Car Annual Volume III 1976 by W. David Randall.

Private Passenger Car Annual Volume I 1980 by David L. Briggs.

Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars thread on rypn.org.

Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on facebook.com.

---------------------------------------

Additions and corrections welcome. Part Two will cover Partitioned Coaches, Combines, and Dinette-Coaches.

Thank you.

Jacob Carey


Last edited by Jacob Carey on Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:34 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Illinois
Did these cars have steam ejector air conditioning after rebuilding?

I am trying to assist with another thread on this topic.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
I would submit that TVRM 1000 might have had steam ejector air conditioning and TVRM 1688 probably did not.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 27
1065, 1075 and 1078 all had steam ejector air when retired and donated to the Atlanta NRHS. 1065 and 1078 are both still at SERM. 1075 was sold to East Tennessee Railcar probably in the early 1990's. I can't remember for sure. 1065 and 1078 both received open window kits in the early 1980's.

1046 at Greenville was on the campus of Furman University a few years ago when I was there. If that car was the Robert E. Lee it would have been a rebuilt Pullman 3-2 Lounge/Ob that was originally for the Crescent Limited. Thanks for that interesting info if it's correct. Too bad it didn't survive as a 3-2. It would have made a great exhibit for someone in two tone green.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:18 pm 
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The cars at the Chattanooga Choo Choo hotel have been heavily remodeled. They are used for hotel rooms and there is a wall in the center of each car separating the two rooms inside. From what I could see when I spent the night there in 2017, there is nothing original inside besides the luggage racks above where the seats used to be. It seems to me that there's more than just nine Southern cars at the Choo Choo but I could be wrong.

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks everyone for your responses!

ctjacks - I believe each series of cars received steam AC except for the series converted from heavyweight Pullmans which had mechanical AC. Even the clerestory roof cars received AC with minor modifications inside the car such as curved air vents that maintained much of the original appearance of the clerestory ceiling.

randyminter - Thanks for the info on 1075. If the car went to East Tennessee Railcar, I wonder if she is still around? Also, my source for the conversion of 1046 from the Pullman "Robert E. Lee" came straight from the Southern Railway System diagram for that car.

Trainkid456 - You are right. I missed one. 1013 is also at the hotel. I will make that correction. One other Southern coach is there as well that does not appear on this list and is numbered 1367. There are a total of 28 cars at the hotel, 11 of which are Southern. The rest of the cars are as follows: NYC coaches 2607, 2619, 2610, 2665, 2652, 2614, 2667, 2635, 2616, 2606, 2664, 2646, 2645; NYC Budd dining cars 696 and 456; Wabash modernized heavyweight 24-seat diner, 18-seat parlor 1510; and a PRR buffet-club coach of unknown number.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 246
I didn't realize any HW cars from the 1920s two tone crescent survived other than one in Duluth GA. Any confirmation on the one in SC?

Wonder what the interiors looked like as delivered for Crescent use ?


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving SOU Modernized Heavyweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 181
Location: TN
Jacob Carey wrote:
One other Southern coach is there as well that does not appear on this list and is numbered 1367.


Very interesting I didn’t know 1367 still existed, let alone was there... it’s a very interesting car, rebuilt in 1938 or 1939 as an additional trailing car for the FM motor cars. My recollection from the diagram books is that it was originally wood sheathed with steel frame. Likely one of the oldest Southern coaches to still exist.


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