The locking and deletion of the threads involving K&T 14 was done by Randy and Doug. I am not in favor of such actions and do not know why we even have a forum if topics of interest to the industry cannot be discussed freely.

Rick Rowlands

Agreed 100%.

What a sad day for transparency. Those threads provided a ton of great information and were not only a learning tool, but also a beacon to alert prospective organizations of past practice. Shame on the moderators for caving in.

We live in a world devoid of transparency and accountability. Doug and Randy are mini Zuckerburgs or Jack from Twitter. Yeah, I get it. It’s their site. But it’s about as informative as Pravda was during the Cold War. Only propaganda is allowed.

I have been a supporter of and believer in RyPN since its inception. It hasn't been perfect, but it's been pretty good, and quite valuable. And I have defended RyPN to naysayers, and have wondered why some people who were active, and long-time participants have vanished.

Lock the K&T 14 thread? Yeah, OK. It had just about run its course.

Remove it completely? Shame, shame, shame. Wrong move, in my opinion.

Some with longer memories may recall a Pennsylvania incident a few decades ago, that occurred with a steam locomotive operated and "maintained" by people who had NO business operating a steam locomotive. It was well-known in the old train biz, that this outfit was a good place to avoid, for many reasons. The attitude of "Don't say anything bad in public, even when warranted and needed", almost shut EVERY operating US steam locomotive down.

Yes, this is a private forum; I will not shout or mutter "First Amendment" here.

Sunshine is a wonderful disinfectant. The record and the photos and the reports speak volumes. There are not "alternative facts" (thank you, Kellyanne, for that one; it's on a par with "modified limited hangout"). These are REAL facts. And REAL statements, both way back when on this very forum, and in documents, proposals, written records, that had been accessible here.

We like to celebrate our triumphs, rightly so. The good work that so many of us do is inspiring to others.

We also should not be afraid of frank discussion of the non-triumphs, the wrong turns, the problems. Let those be a learning experience for us. Try not to repeat the other guy's mistakes; we'll make enough of our own.....

And now I know why people have left RyPN. I feel very disappointed, and have lost considerable respect for this discussion board.

Shame, shame, shame. A sad day for truth and facts.

Howard P.
(wandering in a dark yard in Thomaston)

I'm glad I downloaded all those files and photos before the threads disappeared.

How long until this thread gets deleted? Can it be deleted, seeing as it was started by a moderator?

Agree completely, and I generally favor heavier moderation to get rid of bickering etc. There was too much valuable information in there to delete it. Go through and remove some of the he said/she said stuff if you must, but the photos and analysis by JS and MA and others were gold.

I very rarely do any sort of active participating on these forums, preferring instead to silently read and learn. Over the past few days I have been tempted to share personal knowledge and experiences from my time with the Heber Valley. Seeing as that had nothing to add to preservation I stayed my hand.

Having said that, when I truly started into the world of steam railroading 25 years ago, a respected mentor of mine shared a tidbit of wisdom. What we are truly out to do in this industry is to preserve lost art(s). Preservation involves learning as much as we can to use and later pass on. While successes are good, some of our best learned lessons come from failures.

There were some very good points and lessons contained within those threads. I was very thoroughly disappointed to see them removed. Could we really not have selectively removed the irrelevant posts, thereby saving the valid for future education? This remained civil and very educational for 10 pages of open discussion, then someone stepped in and it spiraled into chaos. There have been numerous times, in various industries, that hiding things have directly resulted in future failures. Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it. How can we ever hope to preserve our industry if we can't have open civil discussions about all aspects of it?
Respectfully
Craig Schultz

I agree with Howard that locking the threads was fine as they were starting to beat dead horses and civility in some of the posts was heading towards the window. But there was valuable info in those threads.

One observation about board civility and getting threads deleted.... Stick to the facts and leave the flaming, no matter how tiny a flame, and/or goading to the other boards out there and we won't have to contend with thread deletions. If something irritates me, I don't get to typing and hit the submit button right away. I'll think about it a while and will usually rewrite what I had written in a much more civil manner. More often I'll just ignore it altogether (usually a wiser choice). Arguing is pointless, especially when it's emotional. That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

I agree completely with everything said. Why does the action have to be either lock or not lock? Why not a little advice and warnings from moderators as a thread proceeds?

Ladies & Gentlemen,

First please allow me to say that I'm a huge believer in as much transparency as possible in all situations and that deletion should be an EXTREMELY rare tool used only to remove obviously lewd or otherwise cruel postings.

Second, moderating is a thankless task as no one can please everyone.

Third, in today's reality anything you post on here is FOREVER out there in the cyber world, word for word regardless of it being deleted here or not. I just Googled Wasatch RR Contractors and it took me directly to the Courts recent confirming of the arbitrators award with all the details to the penny and direct links to RyPN. Therefore before you hit the send key always keep in mind that what you send will NEVER be erased.

Fourth, seems to me that with all its flaws this site does serve a very useful purpose in letting us communicate with each other and the vast majority of the traffic here is worthwhile and helping someone do a better job.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

I was just watching a video of a high school pitcher intentionally beaning an umpire with a fast ball. Many of the comments suggested that the umpire deserved it, ignoring the idea that hitting anyone intentionally with a fast ball is unacceptable, especially at the high school level. In other words, those making comments lost sight of the true issue at hand. The same occurred with the K&T 14 discussion. Yes, some good technical discussion was provided, but then the name calling and unproven accusations just had to be thrown in. For that reason, removing the topic was justified and I commend the moderators.

In truth, I was surprised it went on as long as it did. RyPN postings should be about preservation, both the good and the bad, but with out the social commentary, snarky comments, and commentary from those who have no clue what they are talking about.

Whether any legal action was threatened or not, makes no difference. The topic was locked due to those who posted inappropriate and that includes those who should really know better.

Can we take a lesson from this? I would hope so. Again, I thank the moderators for doing the right thing.

J.R. May

True, true.

However, the threads, minus the snarky comments (Guilty.) and the out and out fighting was of immense value to the community as a cautionary tale, and I believe that removing them completely is a disservice to the community. They should have been pruned of uncivil discourse and left locked. Moderators, please reconsider. If you were forced to delete them under duress from Wasatch, please say so. That knowledge is also of value to the community.

I suppose that this could be a good test of the theory that there is no such thing as bad publicity. I was just wondering how soon Wasatch will be hired to overhaul their next boiler. I have no doubt that they will be.

The baseball player you mentioned had a binary choice, to bean or not bean the umpire. (That’s horrible by the way). You imply the moderators had the same binary choice. That is incorrect.

From what I gleaned, the moderators have several choices. One is to let topics Peter out on their own. The other extreme is to lock and delete. In between they could have culled specific posts, while keeping the 9+ pages of technical discussion up there, and removing the inflamed personalities and snarky comments (guilty as well).

The moderators not only completely deleted the substantive threads but also left up two things. One was Wasatch’s official statement, minus the replies. The second was Randy’s statement that the 14 would never again be discussed here. It is an indication that only one side of the story will be shared. RYPN becomes an advertising arm for Wasatch, if you are okay with that then it’s your right, but it should be troubling to most.

I was up late last night and I found two interesting think pieces from a group called the HeritageRail Alliance. It is about the prevailing “code of silence” in this industry. The censorious moderators proved that point:

https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=15 ... 65b260ac6f

https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=15 ... 43dec85416

I merely wanted to share information. I’m sorry I got caught in one person’s self immolation.

To bean, or not to bean..... that is the question.

Couldn't resist.