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 Post subject: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:41 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:14 pm
Posts: 2
I am new to the site and trying help out my friend Dave Peat, who is a huge steam enthusiast.
He helped found the Indiana Transportation Museum in 1971 and was very involved with the museum. He is now 85 and I have been helping him with work around the house and transporting him to Letterpress conventions and sales.
His Singer #1 Electric Locomotive has lived at the Museum for about 50 years. He is aware that the Noblesville site has been closed and his locomotive hs been moved off site and is safe. However, no one has contacted him with where it is now located. He s worried it has been scraped.

Does anyone, including AlcoC420 have any information to share?


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1260
http://indianarailroads.org/board/index ... #msg185834


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9774
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
PMC wrote:
http://indianarailroads.org/board/index.php?topic=65.msg185834#msg185834

All that tells us is the same thing everyone else has been saying: That it's "off the property."

What no one has said, that I have seen so far, is under what conditions. I could cut it up for scrap and haul it off in a dumpster and still say it's "off the property." (I'm not saying that happened.....)

Has anyone identified:
1) whether it will still be owned by ITM, or whether it has a new owner?
1a) if a new owner, whom?
2) Is it going to a public, semi-public, or private (someone's warehouse or garage) location?


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:15 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 915
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
Answers to the questions appear to be:
location: Francisville, IN
Type of transition: New Owner
Name of owner: Rail Foundation (AKA Bob Harris' project)
Type of storage: private warehouse.

Additional questions I have are,
- what chain of ownership has this engine had over the years. I know it went to the original IRM (Illinois Electric Railway Museum in North Chicago) but did not make the transition to Union. The story I heard from old-timers was that the Singer engine was owned by John Horachek, former North Shore Line trainman, and this transition caused some hard feelings - the Singer engine sure is remarkable.
- I thought it was still owned by Horachek when this whole time that the ITM meltdown occurred. When did ownership transfer or include Dave Peat?
- John Horachek was also supposedly the owner of the North Shore 172. Was this still the case until recently, or remains so?
- What the heck is going on at the former ITM site these days, and when will the City of Noblesville start moving forward with allowing any disbursements, or annulling them?

Reference info:
http://www.bera.org/cgi-bin/pnaerc.pl?detail=652


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:26 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:14 pm
Posts: 2
According to Dave Peat he purchased the Singer Locomotive from Mr. Bob Selle in 1960. It had been stored in a warehouse in Winthrop Harbor, Indiana. Several years later he was involved with actually moving it to the Noblesville site where it has been on display for over 50 years.

The IRM inventory of stock shows it in private ownership starting in it's display starting in 1971. I will get an exact date when I can.

He is not aware of the Rail Foundation (AKA Bob Harris' project). I will share the name with him when I talk to him this weekend. We are still in the information gather part of the search for the Singer and I personally am glad it was not destroyed after reading all the internet news stories about the ITM vs Noblesville activity.


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:50 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5897
The loco was at the Singer plant in South Bend from 1898 (its built date) to 1955. What did it do there? The photo shows it with a link and pin coupler, so apparently it didn't move interchange cars around. Do any photos of it exist when at South Bend? One other question; what is its length? Seems someone would have measured it through the years when it was at ITM.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5897
Les Beckman wrote:
The loco was at the Singer plant in South Bend from 1898 (its built date) to 1955. What did it do there? The photo shows it with a link and pin coupler, so apparently it didn't move interchange cars around. Do any photos of it exist when at South Bend? One other question; what is its length? Seems someone would have measured it through the years when it was at ITM.

Les


Recently found some information on the internet that advised that Singer #1 was only used to haul small flat cars with lumber between various buildings at the Singer facility there in South Bend. Thus, the link and pin couplers were sufficient.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Hammond, WI
Found this during an internet search. Is this the locomotive?


Attachments:
File comment: Singer Manufacturing #1 working at South Bend
Singer 1 at South Bend.jpg
Singer 1 at South Bend.jpg [ 44.25 KiB | Viewed 2063 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5897
Boyd Owens wrote:
Found this during an internet search. Is this the locomotive?


Boyd -

Neat photo! Note that this box cab has a standard knuckle coupler. Could it be Singer number 1? Maybe. I found out that Singer actually had three other 4 wheel electric box cabs. Number 2 was slightly smaller (if you can believe that!) and was assigned to the South Bend plant to move coal hoppers around for their power plant. Box cab number 4 was slightly larger and was assigned to handle interchange cars coming in to, and going out from, the plant. (Singer number 3 was assigned to a Singer operation in Illinois.) Perhaps this IS number 1, and she was handling interchange cars before number 4 was acquired. Someone may be able to tell us.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Hammond, WI
Found this for comparison... To me, looks to be #1...


Attachments:
File comment: Electric Engines In South Bend
Singer Electric Locos SBend.jpg
Singer Electric Locos SBend.jpg [ 104.67 KiB | Viewed 1997 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5897
Boyd -

I'm not so sure. Almost looks like the side window of the locomotive pulling the string of box cars is larger than the window of number 1. Might be closer to number 2. Might need some votes on this.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Hammond, WI
Just to confuse things, this link is a photo of #3 at North Chicago...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/b9/d2/39b9d27acc5406535c6c259c32657c00.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Hammond, WI
Looking at various photos of #1, I can now see that the locomotive in the first photo I posted is NOT #1. Too many details different. Another photo of #1 at link for comparison:
http://sbiii.com/boxsrvel/sngr1zil.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2589
Location: Northern Illinois
From the truck pedestals and cab window it looks the most like No.2. Size of the cab really doesn't make much difference, I would suspect the locos only have a platform controller. The weight is going to be in the frame, especially if it's ballasted.

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 Post subject: Re: Singer #1 Electric Locomotive from The ITM?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:12 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 442
Location: Ipswich, UK
I would vote for #2 as well. The truck sideframes seem to match, as does the side window arrangement.

A "recent" (2012) photo of #1 at the ITM is shown below..
Attachment:
12-1002a.jpg
12-1002a.jpg [ 235.81 KiB | Viewed 1801 times ]

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