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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
Paul-NC wrote:
Rob Gardner wrote:

They have been hoping to run on the state-owned Santa Fe line from Albuquerque north through Las Vegas over Glorietta Pass. However, since Amtrak is the only operator on the line, that has complicated things in the near term with the recent shift in policy there.


The NMDOT and Rio Metro Transit run New Mexico Rail Runner Express operates on this line north from Albuquerque and branches off to Santa Fe. It is possible that they may have rights they are not currently using on other portions of the line. Expansions of the Rail Runner further north have been discussed.
Back in 2008 the State of New Mexico entered into an agreement to buy the line from Lamy to the Colorado state line and paid "earnest money" By 2011 the deal had not closed by the railroad and the new Governor call off the deal citing the ongoing expenses this would bring to the state and the failure of the railroad and previous administration to close the deal.

The NMDOT does own, through the Railrunner operation, the line from Balen through Albuquerque to Lamy and the new line into Santa Fe.

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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:04 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:26 am
Posts: 26
CA1 wrote:
very cool! Congrats!!

2926 is a bit more modern and heavy than the 3751 right ?



Tale of the tape:

3751 Class (Locomotive sans tender)

61' 3.5" pilot to buffer, 16' high (18' 5.5" with stack extended), 132" at widest point.

Weight: 478,100 lbs., On drivers: 287,000 lbs., Calculated T.E.: 66,000 lbs.

2900 Class (Locomotive sans tender)

65' 1.25" pilot to buffer, 16' high (stack extension not shown on blueprint), 141.5" at widest point (cab window awnings)

Weight: 510,700 lbs, On drivers: 295,000 lbs, Calculated T.E.: 66,000 lbs.

According to noted ATSF steam expert, Lloyd Stagner, the calculated starting T.E for the 3765, 3776 and 2900 class 4-8-4's was arrived at using a reduced boiler pressure factor owing to these engines being designed with limited cutoff. It appears the factor was extremely conservative as regular performance in service indicates the actual starting T.E. was nearer to 80,000 lbs.

These three classes were considerately more powerful than the 3751s.

Interesting fact: The route for Santa Fe locomotives from Baldwin at Eddystone involved the B&O. Beginning with the 3765 class, dimensions were too large for the B&O tunnels at Baltimore, so the locomotives left Baldwin on carfloats and were placed back on rails south of the Baltimore tunnels. This procedure pertained to the 3765, 3776 and 2900 classes of 4-8-4s as well as the 5001 and 5011 classes of 2-10-4s.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 544
Location: Canada
According to noted ATSF steam expert, Lloyd Stagner, the calculated starting T.E for the 3765, 3776 and 2900 class 4-8-4's was arrived at using a reduced boiler pressure factor owing to these engines being designed with limited cutoff. It appears the factor was extremely conservative as regular performance in service indicates the actual starting T.E. was nearer to 80,000 lbs.

Bob Kittel, CMO of 3751 calculated that 2926 should have a tractive effort of 86,922, which of course is more than 611 which has always been title holder at 80,000lbs


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:26 am
Posts: 26
Finderskeepers wrote:
According to noted ATSF steam expert, Lloyd Stagner, the calculated starting T.E for the 3765, 3776 and 2900 class 4-8-4's was arrived at using a reduced boiler pressure factor owing to these engines being designed with limited cutoff. It appears the factor was extremely conservative as regular performance in service indicates the actual starting T.E. was nearer to 80,000 lbs.

Bob Kittel, CMO of 3751 calculated that 2926 should have a tractive effort of 86,922, which of course is more than 611 which has always been title holder at 80,000lbs



As with 611, the question arises as to just how much of that power can actually be put to use. Once the factor of adhesion (weight on drivers divided by starting tractive effort) falls below 4 the tendency is for the wheels to slip if too much power is applied. The J had a factor of 3.6.

If the 2900s were indeed capable of 86922 lbs the factor of adhesion would be 3.39 which would cause them to be very slippery animals. That would not work out well on grades well in excess of 2%, where they spent a lot of their lives.

Remember, the N&W Js and As (also having a FOA less than 4) were not primarily designed as mountain maulers.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Chattanooga
"Remember, the N&W Js and As (also having a FOA less than 4) were not primarily designed as mountain maulers."

Are you sure? I thought that is why the J was designed with only 70 inch drivers. On the N&W, running in the mountains was always a big deal as that was their primary territory in W. VA and VA.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Anybody know what's going on down in Albuquerque with the 2926? They have not updated their website for well over a month. No Photos or status since the second week of May.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I can't speak specifically for the 2926 lads, but it's worth reminding folks that in the Desert Southwest, many areas shut down for the summer just like places in the north shut down for the winter, and some folks in places like Phoenix head north for the summer. Many outdoor jobs such as construction or road work switch to night shifts as well.

Phoenix's forecast for today is 111 degrees F. Albuquerque is not as bad--97 today, in the high 90s for the next week.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
Posts: 767
Since I know nothing I will post something. The spreading of Ernie Robert took place last weekend on the C&TS so they may be a little busy.
Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 544
Location: Canada
hamster wrote:
Anybody know what's going on down in Albuquerque with the 2926? They have not updated their website for well over a month. No Photos or status since the second week of May.


I’m not really at liberty to discuss the nitty gritty details, but the website update problems stem from their webmaster having some personal issues (unrelated to the 2926). Rick K did tell me that they got the problematic fountain back, installed with good results. They want to do another static hydro and if all goes well another steam up. I do know that BNSF cut them a nice cheque to go towards their tool car restoration fund, so it seems relations are still good with them which is a big positive.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 569
Location: Winters, TX
Thanks for the update. Best wishes go out to their webmaster. Their updates are as much about the people as they are about the locomotive. Hope things go well the rest of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am
Posts: 765
yankingeorgia wrote:
Finderskeepers wrote:
According to noted ATSF steam expert, Lloyd Stagner, the calculated starting T.E for the 3765, 3776 and 2900 class 4-8-4's was arrived at using a reduced boiler pressure factor owing to these engines being designed with limited cutoff. It appears the factor was extremely conservative as regular performance in service indicates the actual starting T.E. was nearer to 80,000 lbs.

Bob Kittel, CMO of 3751 calculated that 2926 should have a tractive effort of 86,922, which of course is more than 611 which has always been title holder at 80,000lbs



As with 611, the question arises as to just how much of that power can actually be put to use. Once the factor of adhesion (weight on drivers divided by starting tractive effort) falls below 4 the tendency is for the wheels to slip if too much power is applied. The J had a factor of 3.6.

If the 2900s were indeed capable of 86922 lbs the factor of adhesion would be 3.39 which would cause them to be very slippery animals. That would not work out well on grades well in excess of 2%, where they spent a lot of their lives.

Remember, the N&W Js and As (also having a FOA less than 4) were not primarily designed as mountain maulers.



There was also the issue of the Mechanical Department of the Santa Fe not really wanting the Operating Department to know just how mean a hoss they had designed. Mechanical wanted a powerful, efficient locomotive to run bigger trains at faster speeds. Operating wanted more powerful engines with more tractive effort to clear out the yards better. The tests with the 5001 Class ( rated at 93K tractive effort) were shown on test to put out 108K tractive effort. The guys who ran and fired them knew the truth, and 2900's did haul 8,000 ton trains in Kansas on occasion, and 5011's even bigger trains. Once Operating found out, just as Mechanical feared, they raised the tonnage ratings, but kept the published tractive efforts the same.


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:53 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2230
.

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Last edited by Overmod on Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:54 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2230
Overmod wrote:
While we are on the general subject, it's silly to discuss 'bragging rights' on starting TE with low FA, when the real purpose is to produce high horsepower at speed (which is relevant both for the J and any ATSF 4-8-4 classes later than 3765)

As noted, the 'point' is not to start a heavier train, but to make better speed with one that is moving; the 'residual' amount of TE at a particular speed is usually related to what the nominal starting TE was, and this is a factor in DBHP.

In my not-so-humble opinion the only way to 'compare' these locomotives with respect to 'tractive effort' is to graph out their TE-at-speed curves and compare where they are at an agreed 'common' service speed (say 60mph) or a range of comparable speeds. That would be a particularly interesting comparison for 611 vs. 2926...

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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 544
Location: Canada
Seeing as their website hasn’t been updated and not everyone on here has a Facebook account, thought I would share the most recent update

“Update on our Princess! One particular valve on the loco has been a "problem child" since our last hydro and steam-up, which also has held up progress at several areas including another steam up. Thanks to R. Cunningham for providing a donation at the right time which covered most of the funding for the bronze material. We have tightened all the fasteners and the injector piping. More infrastructure work has been accomplished during the down time while the turret was being worked on. And sheet metal work and electrical work is continuing. She’s getting close now to next steam up but we don’t have a date yet. Exciting news is the tool car in Ohio is having the final touches done on the truck frame! If you would like to help us move the thermometer up on the GoFundMe, we would greatly appreciate it. All this can only keep going with donations and volunteers. The 2926 Crew thanks everyone for their help with this project! www.2926.us


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 Post subject: Re: 2926 is finally hot!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 544
Location: Canada
Our favorite machine shop, McClintic RDM Inc, started with an 8" diameter 100 pound piece of shiny bronze (purchased by the Society for a mere $797) and made it into a replacement bonnet for the main shut off valve for the steam fountain. They cleaned up threads, made a new stem for the valve and it looks great.


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