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 Post subject: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8697
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
It's become the cliche in this forum:
"Free passenger car must go ASAP!"

viewforum.php?f=2&t=42101

"Converted office, plumbing and heating! Must go. A.S.A.P "

PLEASE do NOT call this guy unless you are dead serious and/or until I get more info.

Image


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 109
This is former Erie modernized heavyweight diner 946 - Erie Lackawanna 746. It was sold off the deadline at Port Jervis, NY circa 1973 to an individual who operated it on the New Hope & Ivyland until about 1980. Sold to a railroad contracting firm in Columbus, Ohio who moved it there (along with an ex-New York Central baggage car with end doors that was in theater prop service at one point) to a siding where they were used as offices. The interior of the diner was in pretty good shape, body/structural condition was "poor".


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
I'm sure it left NH&I before Nov. 1977, when I started working full time there, and don't remember it.


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 109
JimBoylan wrote:
I'm sure it left NH&I before Nov. 1977, when I started working full time there, and don't remember it.


I can only go by what the then-owner of the car told me. Perhaps it sat somewhere after NH&I use and before going to Ohio.


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 504
ADMIV, I posted about it on on the EL closed facebook group and here are two replies:

"This car indeed isw the former Erie/EL Diner 747 (not 746) and is owned by Fritz-Riemer-Cooke (may not be spelled correctly) and is/was setting on their lot in Columbus, OH. The ELDCPS had "borrowed" several parts from the braking system for their 741. At one time, they had expressed interest in the remainder of the car but not sure where that stands at the present. Guys??"

and

"The ELDCPS [Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society, they have one other EL diner and an ex NKP diner also, and one other EL diner they are working on I believe] are still interested in salvaging parts and interior details from the car, however, we were told to hit the road last year because FRC had someone who would only scrap the car in it entirety. That obvious has fallen through. The car is land locked, no access to rail, plus it has at least one broken leaf spring. It may be free but spring by truck will cost $10K or more to move."


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:05 pm 

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am
Posts: 135
As a wise economics teacher I had in high school taught us "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

Hopefully the car does not wind up getting cut up.

_________________
Adam McDowell
Shaw Air Force Base Rail Operations
General Manager- Mechanical, Foxville and Northern Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 109
I stand corrected - it is the 747. The 746 is still around and in a museum in Greenwood, SC along with an ex-Erie/EL "American" series 6-6-4 sleeper.


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 504
airforcerail wrote:

Hopefully the car does not wind up getting cut up.


If not it won't be the first time RyPN has been instrumental in saving a car from being cut because the owner "didn't think anyone wanted it".


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8697
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Fritz-RUMER-Cooke turns out to be a "railroad and general contractor" with a tiny lot in Columbus; the car is plainly visible, along with a baggage car, if someone does the right internet search.

If someone's crazy enough to try a rescue, some of what's needed (car jacks, cranes) MIGHT be on location.....

The same internet search reveals a couple scrapyards in the vicinity of this location as well. If all it's fit for is parts salvage, perhaps a partnership with one of them could be entertained.....


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 109
I have a number of photos of the inside and outside of this car that I took 7 or so years ago - PM me if you are interested in this car.


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:38 pm
Posts: 24
What in theory would be the absolute cheapest way of moving the car? I have land to put it on up in nearby delaware but can't come up with $10k. 2-4k is more reasonable but the fiance would kill me if I spent more than that.


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8697
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
The ONLY way this thing is moving inexpensively is a short distance across a couple streets.

I have some experience in moving both railroad rolling stock and bridges. Almost every time I have seen someone attempt to move a big object like this "on the cheap" it's come back to bite them--HARD--with equipment breakdowns, the equipment falling off the wheels, the wheels falling off the object, police fines, you name it. I could invoke at least two names of regulars here to ask them to share their hard-luck stories, but I know better.

Compounding this issue, in your case, is the issue of crossing state lines. You MIGHT get away with some kind of permit waiver for crossing town or a county from a siding to a non-profit museum, or to put it in a public park or museum; you WILL NOT get away with that leaving a state with an oversized, overweight load, and even less so as a private owner/recipient.

The trucking companies that specialize in such loads and especially RR rolling stock--Daily Express, Silk Road, and others--don't come cheap for a reason, and a lot of what they're charging you for is simply passing on the permit fees and the experience of doing such paperwork in a way in which the authorities approve.

Typically, this cost consists of:
*Loading at the one end (cranes, forklifts, jacks, ramp, whatever);
*The actual driving from Points A to B;
*The unloading at the other end (reverse of the loading);
*The costs of the trucks themselves (rented, constructed, whatever);
*The costs of oversized permits, any police escorts, utility assistance to lift wires, etc.

About the only way to lower costs in a project like this is to engage the trucking company and wait until they call and say they have an empty rig fitting your needs coming by your way, "can you have it ready to go on the 20th?" You can get discounts helping them to fill out their equipment/driver utilization.

But as I see it right now, $10K sounds like quite a LOW-ball estimate for this distance. You might be looking at more like $15-25K, or more. I wish I were wrong, for your sake......

I recently shipped what got flagged as an overweight load across a couple states; it was finally weighed most of the way to the destination and caught as three tons overweight. Our driver somehow managed to talk his way out of that fine, but took substantial detours over back roads for the final two state borders to avoid being weighed again, which added to the fuel and mileage costs.......


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 504
A year or so ago a group of cars at a closed Boulder CO museum was also available as "MUST GO!" and a group on the east coast rigged up a system that used a two-axle set of truck wheels (what you see at the end of a semi) for the rear and a tongue for the front that both fitted into the coupler pockets on the car. Using this system they moved a wood car around 3k miles that way, and it allowed the car to stay low to the highway and avoid bypassing all the low bridges back east. I seem to remember the group being Western Maryland scenic (the car was different than their own fleet). Would they be willing to make that equipment available?

Edit,it was WMSR, and a three axle rear "truck" of sorts:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40526&p=260022&hilit=C%26S+543#p260022


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:09 am
Posts: 2
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The ONLY way this thing is moving inexpensively is a short distance across a couple streets.

Compounding this issue, in your case, is the issue of crossing state lines. You MIGHT get away with some kind of permit waiver for crossing town or a county from a siding to a non-profit museum, or to put it in a public park or museum; you WILL NOT get away with that leaving a state with an oversized, overweight load, and even less so as a private owner/recipient.


I assume given the context that he means Delaware, Ohio and not Delaware the state. The rest of your point stands though.


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 Post subject: Re: "Free passenger car of the day" in Classifieds--Ohio(?)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:14 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 504
Location: Wall, NJ
If not moving across state lines, and only a fairly short distance in Ohio, then I would try the local larger scrap yards for assistance in trucking it. It worked well for us here in NJ in moving a caboose. They have the trucks, trailers, drivers, and the contacts to make big moves happen quickly, often without permits. We had a high price of $3K and ended up at $300 by working with a scrap yard. Yes, there are cheap ways to move this stuff, especially if not going across state lines. The scrap yard guys are real creative as well. That can get the price down.

Also, call the local big towing companies. The heavy duty guys.

Key is to get on the phone and make phone calls. Email won’t do it.

Also, do you plan to keep it on the trucks? Perhaps they can be traded to cover the cost of the move of the car body.

Get creative. It works. It can be done cheaply. We proved it here in NJ a year ago. Twice.

J.R. May


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