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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 43
I'd just like to acknowledge the efforts made to return the Saginaw Timber #2 to service at Mid-Continent Railway Museum.
Dozens of members, (and some non-members, too) put in thousands of hours of volunteer labor to get the 2 back together. Skip himself, of course, put in the most time.
The locomotive was allowed out on the main line three times for shakedown runs, so most of the people who put in the hours never got to see it run.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the project the 2 is back in steam.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2279
"GARIBALDI, Ore. — One of private preservation’s most effective individuals, steam locomotive owner Roland “Skip” Lichter, has died. The owner of Polson Lumber Co. 2-8-2 No. 2, long based in Wisconsin and relocated to Oregon in 2017, died Wednesday."

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... wner-dies/


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:26 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 191
Sad news.

His heritage will live for long time...
...with his locomotive:


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:16 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 191
News about Saginaw Timber #2.

Skip Lichters family sold the locomotive to Albany Eastern Railroad in Lebanon, OR.
It will be transported this winter and help San Joaquin and Eastern #205 with the
tourist duties on that line.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Minneapolis, MN
linkthebutler wrote:
News about Saginaw Timber #2.

Skip Lichters family sold the locomotive to Albany Eastern Railroad in Lebanon, OR.
It will be transported this winter and help San Joaquin and Eastern #205 with the
tourist duties on that line.

Looks like The AE will give it a good home on their Santiam Excursion operation. A quick look at the Santiam Excursions Trains website shows only one steamer on the roster, former San Joachim & Eastern No. X-205.

Having worked with Skip on the No. 2's restoration at Mid-Continent, I am very happy to see it continuing to run in excursion service.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:50 pm
Posts: 3
From another site, Saginaw Timber #2 will participate in a Pete Lerro Charter in October at Oregon Coast Scenic, then head to ORHC to work the Holiday Express trains prior to moving to its new home at the Albany & Eastern in Lebanon. A busy old logger.

Cheers, Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2560
Location: Strasburg, PA
Looking at a lot of photos of Colorado narrow gauge engines, I am impressed by how often a particular engine would go from having blind drivers, to flanged, and back to blind again sometimes over a span of just a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:02 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6399
Location: southeastern USA
Cheapest way to deal with thin and sharp flanges. Of course you have to do both sides.

_________________
“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:15 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 924
Ya Kelly it makes me wonder who was making the decisions to go back and forth and why? Was it a bean counter higher up in the office wanting to use flanged tires because they were on hand or if locomotive changed hands and new owners didn't feel they needed the blind drivers?

When we finally put the newly turned wheels, new bearings and one new Axle back under the frame {minus boiler} it was great to see how the running gear literally went around corners. Of course with half the weight missing it whipped around/through tight switches leading into engine house like a sports car. We just wanted to see how things rolled so it was a unique chance to be up close and personal to watch and listen closely. We did this during the week without a lot of onlookers watching. At that time few people involved at MC thought Skip would be able to get the #2 back together much less running. There was not a lot of warm and fuzzy support for this project. Until later when it was closer to steaming.

In an earlier post it mentions "dozens of member and volunteers" who helped get this engine running back in 2017/2018. I disagree. There were people helping behind the scenes and who occasionally were helping on the ground. But until the boiler went back on the frame most people just watched and did not try and help. If anything it was a hostile environment for a long time. Once things got further along and it began to resemble a locomotive, then general attitudes started to change. The handful of people helping this restoration were not "dozens" by any stretch. Gary Bensman really led the parade at a distance and was Skips main go to guy when things got dicey. A few very good steam guys also contributed with advice and contributed to the successful conclusion of a mostly one man show. This is how I remember it and was involved through most of it until it was steamed. After that a newer crew was involved in operation and break in runs. But the long haul was quite a bit different story. With a happy ending I might add. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 125
Mr. Risley is spot on. The restoration of the No. 2 was largely a one-man effort, lead by Skip, until she was getting close to operational status, then a number of folks came out of the woodwork. Thank goodness that Skip was able to get the No. 2 out of North Freedom. If you'd like to see an example of how not to run a railroad museum, look no further than the incompetent leadership (dictatorship?) of the Mid-Continent Railway Museum. I'll say it again. Thank GOD Skip was able to move the No. 2 out of there! I'd rather see it scrapped than left to MCRM.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Looking at a lot of photos of Colorado narrow gauge engines, I am impressed by how often a particular engine would go from having blind drivers, to flanged, and back to blind again sometimes over a span of just a few years.

The No. 2 came from Baldwin with blind drivers and never had flanges on the no.2 and 3 wheel sets. Because of the need to keep these wheels on the rails for traction, the tires were significantly wider than the flanged wheels.
It was a shame that the tubes were installed at Milwaukee Boiler because it took over 5 years to complete the mechanical work on the running gear, all time when the 1472 day clock was running.

I am grateful that I got such a great experience as a steam newby!


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:09 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
hamster wrote:
It was a shame that the tubes were installed at Milwaukee Boiler because it took over 5 years to complete the mechanical work on the running gear, all time when the 1472 day clock was running.


Off topic, but this type of situation is a (in my opinion) mistake that happens too often. C&NW 1385s clock started Summer of 2020 (1 year after tubes were installed), which means roughly 15% of its 15 year clock has been lost already, with plenty more restoration work left to do. And the tube time on UP 428 at IRM has already expired, with ONE service day on them. Although they do seem hopeful in obtaining a waiver for between 5 and 8 years once the rest of the rebuild is completed- I'm not sure how realistic that optimism is.


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 Post subject: Re: Saginaw Timber No. 2 - Life After Mid-Continent
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 924
Boilermaker makes a very sound point. Having been involved with Skip as a friend and helper I was able to observe the decision making on this project. When it was a more complicated step he would confirm with Gary or other experienced mechanics on how to approach. Such as installing the new axle to main drivers. We sweated that little project as none of us had done this before. The point of this is there are many decisions to make on how or who your going to sub contract work too, during a heavy restoration. We often talked about the learning curve and hindsight being 20/20. There are a few things he would of done differently if to do it over again. I will list a couple that come to mind.

One was obviously installing the tubes so far in advance. I do not know what the rationale was for that untimely decision? I do know that originally his plan was to complete the boiler first get the #2 running and then approach the running gear which he knew was in dire need. But at least the engine would be running. Approach it as two separate restorations so to speak. Fairly early on he was convinced it was best to tackle all of it at same time. So not sure if that thought to install the tubes was a leftover idea from the original plan? Obviously he would not do that twice if the universe had allowed do overs. The one that I argued with him about was the decision to have the wheels turned and axle replaced by a shop in Milwaukee area who could handle the work and agreed to do the work in slack times on their end and of course charge less. They took a very long time in turning the tires and removing the old axle. Then sat on that project until Skip finally brought the turned wheels and new axle project home. I thought from day one to send the wheels to Chattanooga and be done with it. Or Strasburg either one. As it turned out the wheels were not turned down properly and two drivers had to be pulled back out and sent back to square up the diameters which were not same on all wheels. We ended up installing the new axle ourselves with heat and dry ice locally in Reedsburg, Wi We more or less did it in a weeks time after finding a place that would let us do it in their shop. Done in a day but we lost a lot of time by not having a wheel shop with experience do the work initially. The rationale at the time was he wanted to be able to keep a physical eye on the work as it progressed. And shipping back an forth. In the end the shipping would of been well worth it to have it done right the first time and the speed of the work being done. Hindsight is 20/20. There are so many facets of a full blown rebuild that there are going to be mistakes and poor choices on how to proceed. These are the only two that I can think of at the moment. Having Gary and a few others to consult with kept the rework down to a very dull roar in comparison to many rebuilds.

The road to completion on a project of this scope is a long and tricky one to navigate. Your best laid plans are often waylaid by surprises you didn't see coming. With the exception of the two choices mentioned it was actually a very smoothly done restoration looking back at it. If you never tackled a full blown restoration you have no idea on how many potential mistakes one can make. To Skips credit he hired and listened to some of the best people out there, most of the time. That leadership from behind kept things in line. Much like the restoration of the Alaskan group in Anchorage, AK. While not part of the restoration one has to remember quite a bit of trauma Skip went through in his personal life during this time. No need to go into it in detail. But most people would not of been able to handle some of these things period. A whole lot of blood, sweat and tears went into the #2s restoration. The hostile environment alone would of stopped most people. Again no need to beat that dead horse any further. Seriously folks you can have your opinions on who to subcontract with or how to proceed in what order. But until you have walked in the shoes of the one calling the shots, best to whisper softly. Sorry for going on so, but I feel close to this project even though I made no decisions during the project. Now stepping down from the soap box.

Regards, John.


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