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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 397
Think about this statement...

"Jason has a history of accomplishing what he sets out to do even if not every goal is met."

What exactly does this mean?

T7


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:56 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
Scranton Yard wrote:

I also noted one comment on the fact that it was presented to the City that the Gofundme monies could not be redirected to help with the in-place static preservation effort in Port Arthur but yet were able to be redeployed for the preservation of other equipment.
This question of Gofundme rules and whether funds raised can be redirected has come up several times. I would be amazed if someone can show me the exact Gofundme rules that answer that question. I read Gofundme rules and policy until I could not stand it any longer, but I was unable to find a clear answer to this pertinent question. Their rules and policies seem quite subjective and ambiguous in many areas.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 569
Location: Winters, TX
Deleted with my apologies.


Last edited by Charlie on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Minneapolis, MN
All RIGHT, everybody! This deal is now a dead dog and we need to leave the putrifying body in the ground. Jason is OUT, the 503 is saved, sort of, the politics of Port Arthur are unchanged and the Earth is still in its orbit. We need to put this one to bed as an interesting but basically bad dream; a cloud without the silver lining.

Jason has moved on and we need to do the same.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:34 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
With the surprising success of the Gofundme campaign, some suggested that this might be the way of the future in raising money for restoration projects. Since this 503 campaign seems to have been the prototype for this kind of funding potential, I think it is worthwhile to examine how it went, along with the questions it raises about changing the fund purpose after funds are raised. As I mentioned earlier, an offer of refund needs to have terms. Over and over, we were told that Gofundme rules cover all of that. Can somebody please show me those rules? Maybe I just did not look in the right place.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:01 pm
Posts: 178
Charlie wrote:
Speaking of GoFundMe, is there anything in there about a time frame for making refunds? I emailed Jason on the 10th and again on the 23rd and haven't heard anything back from him. Has anyone received a refund or any kind of communication in regards to a refund?

One other point I'd like to make is that regardless of what GoFundMe says, Jason said in his video updates that the money would either be used for the 503 or the donation would be refunded to the donor or directed to an organization of the donor's choosing. That seems rather binding in my opinion.


I'm no lawyer but from what I could find, https://pages.gofundme.com/guarantee-policy/ you can submit a claim to GoFundMe if the campaigns contents are innaccurate "We're raising $50,000 to purchase the locomotive from the city's contractor and move it to the Texas State Railroad for interim storage. " and you have asked for your money to be refunded and more than 72 hours have passed.

Read the page thoroughly for all the nitty gritty details.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 705
Dennis Storzek wrote:
I do think it's useful to conduct a postmortem to identify what worked, what didn't, and why, because this isn't the last time a park steamer is going to suddenly be endangered.


hamster wrote:
All RIGHT, everybody! This deal is now a dead dog and we need to leave the putrifying body in the ground. Jason is OUT, the 503 is saved, sort of, the politics of Port Arthur are unchanged and the Earth is still in its orbit. We need to put this one to bed as an interesting but basically bad dream; a cloud without the silver lining.

Jason has moved on and we need to do the same.

Esoteric questions as to whether this is all a bad dream or some higher life form's game simulation are all way above my pay grade. As for the 503 endeavor, I am firmly with Mr. Storzek. This is not the first or last time a piece of government-owned historic rail equipment will need preservation intervention and so it is very useful to examine how this all played out. If the next individual or group that tries this is a bit more successful because they stand on Mr. Sobczynski's shoulders knowledge-wise, that is the silver lining that hamster claims is absent.

One of the innovations used successfully was the Gofundme website. A sense of immediacy and of group participation was skillfully cultivated by the use of Gofundme updates and Facebook live "breaking news"-type presentations as a way to encourage donations. A large sum, by rail preservation standards, was raised in a short amount of time. The downside of all this, as has been mentioned, is that crowdfunding often appears to result in crowdmeddling, either through social media or by direct intervention with the local players (including the local news organizations). In a situation like 503, where the attempted preservation is quickly transformed into a political challenge, how can one make the most of the funding resource while maintaining a proper and cohesive presentation/message to other stakeholders (in this case the City government employees, elected officials, and residents)?


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 211
Quote:
Jason has moved on and we need to do the same.

Obviously. Did anyone, who requested a refund, get their money back? This would leave a bad taste to ever contribute to something like this again in my mind. To me, there is still a lot of confusion what EXACTLY the money was used for.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 569
Location: Winters, TX
deleted with my apologies.


Last edited by Charlie on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 397
Do you guys remember when that guy started a gofundme page to pay for restoration of a Milwaukee Rd observation car...that he owned? That did not go very well. I see that same guy started a gofundme page to get his stage rebuilt after it burned in a wildfire. Let's not let these deals become abused and overused.

T7


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:05 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Charlie wrote:
Speaking of GoFundMe, is there anything in there about a time frame for making refunds? I emailed Jason on the 10th and again on the 23rd and haven't heard anything back from him. Has anyone received a refund or any kind of communication in regards to a refund?

One other point I'd like to make is that regardless of what GoFundMe says, Jason said in his video updates that the money would either be used for the 503 or the donation would be refunded to the donor or directed to an organization of the donor's choosing. That seems rather binding in my opinion.

Oh, and how was Jason going to carry out his plans for the 503 if he was only able to raise a net of $53,000 after GoFundMe fees were paid?


Had you followed the instructions and provided me a means by which to get you a refund I would have done so. You did not include a mailing address, a PayPal account or anything else which gave me the ability to get you your $200 back.

I even sent you an email back saying that you did not fall out all the instructions and that I needed you to do so.

I only asked for 2 things, a screen grab of the donation and instructions for how you want the money returned. Rather than follow through with these simple requests to get you what you want, you yalk about not having received a refund in a public forum which I do not participate in unless someone calls my attention to something.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:11 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Bowling Green, KY
train guy wrote:
Quote:
Jason has moved on and we need to do the same.

Obviously. Did anyone, who requested a refund, get their money back? This would leave a bad taste to ever contribute to something like this again in my mind. To me, there is still a lot of confusion what EXACTLY the money was used for.



Of the people who did get a refund, all but 3 did not provide one or both pieces of information I requested. I got multiple emails from people simply stating "I want a refund". I asked for only two things, a screen grab, and a preferred method of getting the money. If I did not have both, I could do nothing for obvious reasons.

It should have been exceptionally simple..... two pieces of info. How hard is that? Apparently very as trying to get money back to people, having to extricate the info out of them to facilitate this, turned into a job for me.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:13 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Termite7 wrote:
Do you guys remember when that guy started a gofundme page to pay for restoration of a Milwaukee Rd observation car...that he owned? That did not go very well. I see that same guy started a gofundme page to get his stage rebuilt after it burned in a wildfire. Let's not let these deals become abused and overused.

T7


Absolutely agree!


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:00 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 569
Location: Winters, TX
Jason, my apologies for the confusion over this. For the record, I did include my mailing address in my first email. And your video instructions did not mention having to provide a means of returning the money, all it asked for was a screen grab of the receipt which I provided in my reply to your first email. I assumed the money would be returned to the credit card that I used for the donation.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1275
Location: Pacific, MO
I make a motion we finally lay the 503 thread to rest. What is left to say about it?


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