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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:24 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3941
Location: Maine
Ross nailed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
I hope someone will revisit this locomotive in a few years, if it is still around, and report on how well the cosmetic restoration was done.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5486
Location: southeastern USA
Well, the asbestos on the locomotive is gone. The city still has to come to grips with the cost of removing it and the track it sits on for remediation, not to mention subsequent restoration and conservation. Perhaps they would find selling her to Jason would cover the cost of completing the remediation work, and be a very inexpensive and convenient way to make their problems disappear? I'm not at all certain there's a final outcome yet.

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1728
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Dave, did you watch the 90 minute City Council meeting?? If your answer is yes and even having watched that display of total dysfunction you still posted what you did then I'm very curious as to how your mind works.

The Mayor and all the Councilmen present were unanimous in their determination to keep the 503 in PA,.... the facts be damned.

What you think is going to make them wake up and smell the coffee near term is certainly a mystery to me.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2410
co614 wrote:
The Mayor and all the Councilmen present were unanimous in their determination to keep the 503 in PA,.... the facts be damned.


And yet after the meeting, Jason was asked by some of those same people to submit a response to the coming RFP. Who knows what will happen once the grandstanding is done?

Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 390
This is Mr. Sobczynski’s deal. He conceived it. He initiated it. He has been working towards its goals on his own time and with his own money. Most importantly, he has asked for patience and support while he continues to work with the stakeholders towards finalizing it. It is not in his interest, nor is it in the interest of 503, to post negative comments about the citizens of Port Arthur, the elected officials of Port Arthur, or the City employees of Port Arthur on this, a publicly accessible message board. This is especially true if your name could possibly be closely associated with his effort because it appears on his GoFundMe page.

Mr. Sobczynski has achieved phase one of his plan to “Save 503” which was to prevent it from being cut up by Inland during the performance of, and as called for in, their abatement contract with the City of Port Arthur. He is now trying to achieve the second phase of his plan, which is to provide long-term support for 503. Mr. Sobczynski’s plan is the only one put forth to date that provides for the maintenance of 503 in perpetuity through the establishment of a trust that will use lease payments from operation to pay for needed maintenance. This will ensure that 503 can tell the story of southeastern American railroads - how they shaped and built the southeast - for multiple generations to come and not just for the next five or ten years while environmental concerns have cast a spotlight on 503’s condition.

Mr. Sobczynski put this plan together and funded the initial steps in a matter of days. This in of itself is a fantastic achievement. He is very accessible through several emails, the PM function on this board, the messaging function on FB, and even through his cel which he has posted. He is very patient with inquiries about what he is trying to do, with comments, concerns, and recommendations. He has spoken with many people in Port Arthur. It is his judgment that it is worthwhile to continue to work towards a lasting solution for 503. He deserves to do this without public badmouthing of the people he is working with in Port Arthur and without his judgement in continuing to work with them being publicly questioned.

As for the proceedings on Tuesday, it did not appear much different to me from the town council meetings I have been to with the obvious posturing and theatrics. Yes, it was very political, but what isn’t? A better understanding of what is behind much of what was spoken about and many of the people involved can be had through use of the search features on the Port Arthur News and the Beaumont Enterprise web pages.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 563
Scranton Yard wrote:
It is not in his interest, nor is it in the interest of 503, to post negative comments about the citizens of Port Arthur, the elected officials of Port Arthur, or the City employees of Port Arthur on this, a publicly accessible message board.


This, times 1000!

Ross, for the love of god, please stop posting about 503.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 587
Chris Webster wrote:
Scranton Yard wrote:
It is not in his interest, nor is it in the interest of 503, to post negative comments about the citizens of Port Arthur, the elected officials of Port Arthur, or the City employees of Port Arthur on this, a publicly accessible message board.


This, times 1000!

Ross, for the love of god, please stop posting about 503.

Completely agree. I decided to keep my mouth shut, but the post that essentially said that the city went to h*ll when the white people moved out and Latinos moved in is horribly offensive and has no place here.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
PMC wrote:
Completely agree. I decided to keep my mouth shut, but the post that essentially said that the city went to h*ll when the white people moved out and Latinos moved in is horribly offensive and has no place here.



That isn’t what was said, but ok. I was born in Port Arthur and raised in the neighboring city of Groves. Port Arthur’s demographics and history are factual and I’ve personally witnessed it. Is it the reason for the city going to “h*ll”? I can’t say.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 18
What is "city property"? I am assuming that this community only thinks that the locomotive was and is city property. When the asbestos was removed, I am pretty sure that the metal jacket was removed too. That was also city property.

If you hire a contractor to remove rodent droppings from your house or barn, the contract would either say to remove or dispose of. Not to make a neat pile in your front yard. Well, calcium silicate is not rodent droppings but it too is assumed to be removed. So you are essentially saying to remove items from the premises. The concept of scrap not having value is not valid either. If you remove the Aluminum siding from your home, it too has value although some contractors will toss it into the dumpster. Melted coins and jewelry become scrap gold or silver. Is this tossed? Probably not.

So the point of all of this is that the contractor was hired to remove various materials and the contractor did do that. It would be just like a paving contractor is paid to mill the road, remove the millings and provide fresh blacktop. Was the original surface deemed to be city property? Yes. If you came and removed it, you would be charged with theft. That has to do with grass, dirt, gravel, asbestos, droppings, trash, buildings, autos, locomotives. They all belong to the city. You need permission to remove. I do not buy the argument that council has to vote on all that can be removed. A services contract can do that too.

So it looks like the city has the right to stop the work....right in the middle. That is a cease work order. Now the city has to settle with the contractor. It is like you firing the paving contractor after the milling step or firing the painter after the prep work. Up to the time the cease work was delivered, the contractor had every right to keep working and to remove, sell, or dispose of what the contract said that he could do.

So we are back to square 1. And I am sure that this thread will continue to be hotly debated by folks who are curious. I would not be surprised to see the page count go to 40 with nothing resolved. Every point has been made and nobody really has any influence. It is interesting....but let's be realistic. The milk has been spilled.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1728
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
In terms of the demographic history of Port Arthur I was passing on what a senior reporter ( who has lived there his whole life) for the Port Arthur News shared with me. Several other RYPN posters who are Port Arthur residents have confirmed the narrative.

If you witnessed that 90 minute sorry excuse for a meeting and didn't come away feeling sorry for both the 503 and the poor citizens of Port Arthur then I can't help you any further.

I've shared my feelings with Jason and wish him well with his intention to submit a response to the promised RFP.

As I've said from early on in this saga.....let's hope it has a happy ending.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5486
Location: southeastern USA
FYI - in my experience, when people who proclaim they will do something regardless of cost actually find out the cost, they frequently reconsider. That's all...... nothing complex about the way my mind works in this case. What will the dog actually do with the car he's chasing should he ever catch it?

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:30 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1353
co614 wrote:
In terms of the demographic history of Port Arthur I was passing on what a senior reporter ( who has lived there his whole life) for the Port Arthur News shared with me. Several other RYPN posters who are Port Arthur residents have confirmed the narrative.

If you witnessed that 90 minute sorry excuse for a meeting and didn't come away feeling sorry for both the 503 and the poor citizens of Port Arthur then I can't help you any further.

I've shared my feelings with Jason and wish him well with his intention to submit a response to the promised RFP.

As I've said from early on in this saga.....let's hope it has a happy ending.

Ross Rowland


I think that if some group in Port Arthur raises the funds to preserve, display, and protect 503 in the City, the City Council will cooperate 100% because they believe that the local residents want the engine to stay in Port Arthur.

What is needed for Jason's cause to succeed is for some Port Arthur residents to express the view that 503 would be better off leaving the City and being fully restored for operation. I am sure there must be Port Arthur residents who feel that way. I recall that one spoke at the last meeting.

I would not be surprised of some type of overall compromise can be reached that would benefit 503, the interests of preservation and operation, and the close relationship with the City of Port Arthur. There is certainly a lot of energy pulling in that direction right now. This could have a very happy ending.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2410
Jason has new video up:

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwj_I-OitSQ

Facebook - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1741705769206000&id=319972281379363

He's still looking to us for email support as the City of Port Arthur puts its RFP together.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:27 am
Posts: 50
Location: Dallas, Texas
It was almost DOOMED... PANews accounts the saving of KCS/L&A 503 from the scrapper.

http://m.panews.com/2018/03/12/without- ... as-doomed/


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