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 Post subject: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 163
Location: Orrville, OH
A third question on the subject of journals: What are you using for journal lid gaskets? Left to my own devices, I'd consider a thin, low durometer nitrile closed cell foam strip with nitrile sealant to glue it to the lid. Thoughts?

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1497
Location: Southern California
Never heard of lid gaskets for traditional journal boxes.
Are you concerned about leakage? or dust/dirt contamination? or what?

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 159
There use to be a company that made a seal for the journal box lids.
These just clipped on.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: Orrville, OH
I'm looking to keep any contamination out, especially water. I know there have been journal lid gaskets manufactured in the past but if this is a why-bother, I'd certainly like to know that, too. I also wonder if gasketing would make a condensate problem. I'm a newbie with plain bearings so I'm researching all I can before I dive in so the project gets done right this coming spring.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2178
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Hennessey and others made them; see numerous ads in the 1950s-60s railroad trade press and Car Builders's Cycs for illustrations of these things.

It was part of improving performance of plain bearings in the post-war era, as freight train speeds increased, and as competition from roller bearings heated up (no pun intended?).

Journal pads (lubricators), lid seals, better and more resilient rear seals/dust guards, and journal stops (both built-in to the box and rubber "inserts") were all part of this attempt. A plain bearing box so equipped was eventually allowed 60 months between repacking.

All of these specialty items are now gone, with the possible exception of the journal pads still being made by Hooper.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 159
jayrod wrote:
I'm looking to keep any contamination out, especially water. I know there have been journal lid gaskets manufactured in the past but if this is a why-bother, I'd certainly like to know that, too. I also wonder if gasketing would make a condensate problem. I'm a newbie with plain bearings so I'm researching all I can before I dive in so the project gets done right this coming spring.


I have seen water in the journal boxes before, but most I have seen, have entered the box at the rear, around the axle.

Some of the older boxes had wood rear seals and later there were rubber seals for the rear. Box cars will cover the truck, but tank cars and hopper cars will allow water on to the axles and then in to the boxes.

The biggest problem I have seen with the rear seals, is that people, when they pick up a truck, with a crane, etc. pick it up wrong.

It you pick the truck up by the truck frame, then the weight of the wheel sets will crush the rear seals, then they are done.

Friction bearing trucks should be picked up by the wheels or the axles. This is the same on freight and pessenger cars, as well as locomotives with friction bearings.

I have seen locomotives with friction bearings jacked or lifted with the truck held in place by the side bearings. Sometime when you do this, the brass will roll around to the side and then get crushed when you sit it back down on the rail.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:28 pm 

Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 2:46 pm
Posts: 165
Nothing to do with lids, I learned from the old heads to drive a wood wedge between the axle end and box lip which kept the axle from dropping down when lifting .


Last edited by M Secco on Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:56 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 345
Location: Northern California
In regular service I think normal bearing heat would have kept the box free of water. If these are journals on cars that do not regularly operate, the most important thing you can do for them is to move the car at least once a year. This is/was recommended by AAR to prevent the journals from getting etched. Prior to moving the car use a suction device to suck any water in the bottom of the box out. The oil will be floating on the water. Then oil the journal down its length prior to moving it. The rear seal is a problem as they require a lot of work to renew. But if you have the type of box where the rear seal drops in from the top, make sure that slot is completely sealed with tar or RTV or alike. If this is a dusty location, make a pad of waste, soaked in oil, that fills the front of the box. This is called a dust plug and will help keep dirt out. Best thing for plain bearings is to oil them and run them.


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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:17 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 929
Quote:
"What are you using for journal lid gaskets? Left to my own devices, I'd consider a thin, low durometer nitrile closed cell foam strip with nitrile sealant to glue it to the lid."


That's almost the opposite of what you need, which is something relatively thick that seals circumferentially around the inside of the box opening and not just presses against the front lip with the lid spring pressure. I wonder whether a dust-plug-like arrangement with a spider of radial spring 'fingers' bearing at its center against the axle end and at outer end perhaps with some kind of garter spring could be arranged to provide the necessary pressure with the lid closed?

Then we work on low-cost box vents that work like Gore-Tex in having pores that pass water vapor but not oil molecules...

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 Post subject: Re: Journal Lid Gaskets
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 163
Location: Orrville, OH
I'm still mulling different ways to gasket the lids using items currently available without having to resort to custom made parts or extrusions. None of this equipment moves much - maybe 3-4 times a year. We're not in a dusty environment so water is mostly what I'd like to keep out so we don't have jugs of contaminated water to dispose of. However, I'm aware that this may be a solution looking for a problem. I'll know for sure come spring.

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