Hmm, Not sure if there is any hope to rerail the drifting here.

Got a couple more questions on these behemoths?

1. Did the fuel tender heating alternator take it's power from the turbine or the diesel in the A unit?

2. Did the turbine traction generators supply their field or did the diesel in the A unit run the air compressors, charge batteries, run lights, and supply field to the traction generators?

3. I understand there is comprehensive info in the Turbines Westward book. Are there any other available nuts and bolts drawings and explanations on how the locos were built and operated? I'm a nuts and bolts kinda person and desire technical info to study.

Robert

1. Tender heat alternator took power from aux diesel, was mounted engineers side, just forward of the large vents on the sides of the A unit.


2A. Main generator excitation used battery power (supplied by A unit diesel), and 4 exciter-generators mounted on the forward ends of the main generator pairs, using the standard 3 pad GE auxiliary drive boxes.

2B. A unit diesel powered it's own main generator (and exciter-generator), A unit traction motor blowers, tender heating alternator, aux gen (battery charging and 72 VDC control and lighting circuits), 3 (yes, three) air compressors, turbine cooling water pump, and radiator fan. Aux diesel main generator was used for hostling, and providing cranking power to turbine main generators (used for both starting, and cool down cranking)


3) Someplace in this apartment I have both the GE operators manual, and a 20+ year old photocopy of a paper by one of the GE engineers who helped develop the locomotives. The GE manual does not cover the changes made to MU with diesels, and the ability to start and stop the turbine (and put it on or offline) while rolling under the power of the MU'ed diesels


Jeff, (whose phone # many years ago ended with "8718", aka "UP 18")

Jeff, Thank you for the detailed explanations. That is the sort of information I am looking for on these brutes. I would love to have a look at those documents if you ever find the time to scan them? I saw some repop builders plates for sale not long ago for about $50. Thought about getting one as the turbines hold a special place in my interest in UP.

I don't know for sure but I am guessing the tender had 8 heating elements? Guesses based off looking over the short fuel tenders from CSA challengers.

Robert

12 heating elements, which put 4 on each phase of the 3 phase power from the fuel heating alternator.

Documents will be scanned when A) I find them. B) I have enough time.



Jeff

Fair enough. Do you know roughly what voltage the three phase alternator put out for the heating elements? How many KW was the elements rated for?

Why did these locomotives have 3 air compressors? Seems a little odd given the overall setup.

Robert

As the train heating alternator itself is among the missing components on #18, and isn't mentioned in any of my sources, I have no way of telling what voltage it was rated for.

The elements themselves are not visible, but they are enclosed in tubular housings about 3 feet long and 1 foot in diameter (located behind the 6 round plates on each side of the tender).

As for the 3 air compressors, the turbine engine itself used a good quantity of compressed air for fuel atomization, and the locomotives were doing the work of more than 3 diesels of the same era. With mile long trains of late 1950's airbrake equipment, leakage could be an issue.


Jeff

Jeff, Your the most knowledgeable person on the turbines who's been willing to answer some of my questions so i will ask a couple more questions,

Any ideas on make and model of the main traction generators? I've never found anything about them.

Second, I never knew these frame 5 engines used water cooling. Do you have anymore information on this subject? I always thought they had oil cooling for the turbine bearings and gearboxes but never knew about the water cooling aspect.

Third, Did the tenders have any kind of fuel pumps or filters on them or did the turbine pumps suck oil from the tender forward to the engine.

Lastly, I know they heated the fuel to 110 degrees F but how did they further heat the fuel to 240 degrees F? Was this another electric heater at the turbine or exhaust heat from the turbine?

Robert

The make of the main generators would be GE, the model is unknown to me. I would hazard a guess that they were very similar to the generators in a U25, but 2 out of the 4 would have been reverse rotation.

The water cooling diagram in the operators manual (FOUND IT!) shows the main flow of B unit cooling water ran thru a turbine lube oil cooler and an atomizing air cooler, with a smaller branch going thru a hydraulic oil cooler.

Main fuel pump for flow from the tender was underneath the rear, fireman's side of the B unit, and the filters were inside the rear of the B unit, under the exhaust bucket, along with the fuel transfer valve for switching to diesel fuel for startup or shutdown.


I have to correct ssomething I wrote in an earlier response, while there were 3 air compressors, only 2 of them were in the A unit and powered by the diesel. the 3rd was mounted on the rear, fireman's side of the main gearbox, and was the atomizing air compressor.


Jeff, who is going to see if he can scan some of the manual into a form sharable online.

OneDrive link to a 120mb pdf file of the 8500HP turbine operators manual: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AioEPuuycyM3ga4IdOzLHJJvGAHQLg



Jeff

Thank you Jeff. I will be reading through the operators manual of the next day or so. I would not mind reading the pages by the GE engineer on the specifics of designing the super turbines. This is all fascinating stuff for me.

Robert