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 Post subject: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
I am adding another car to the top of the list, although its condition is questionable. That is the derelict car in Cambria County.

I also wonder about the possibility that the owners of H&BT ND body no. 15 at Williams Grove might come to an arrangement with the owners of the frame in Schuylkill County. Of course it's not for me to tell these folks what to do with their own property.

Has anybody ever figured out where the burned one from the Danbury Museum came from? If it came from the Sandy Pond collection, it could be the frame of H&BT 17. If that's the case, restoration of H&BT 15 with that frame seems to make all the more sense.

The question was asked how many PRR ND 4 wheel cabin cars exist in preservation. We might as well list them. Here's a start. It's probably incomplete and may contain errors.

* unknown number Private ownership in Cambria County, PA; very deteriorated condition. Unknown whether this car is restorable, but photos indicate it may be in no worse condition than the N6b planned for restoration in New Jersey. If anyone is SERIOUSLY interested in this project, contact me and I will forward your name to the owner. I do not want to trouble the owner with inquiries that are not serious.
* PRR 476052 Private ownership; not open to the public. Stored, BIDA Complex, (former ACF), Berwick, PA.
* PRR 476087 Strasburg RR no. 10, operational
* PRR 476199 Illinois Railway Museum, Union, IL, display
* PRR 476582 New Oxford, PA, display. Reported to be ex M&PA 2006
* unknown number Age of Steam Roundhouse, Sugarcreek, OH. Future restoration. Acquired ca. 2013 from display in Riverside Park at Sewickley, PA. Reputed to be Pittsburgh Chartiers & Youghiogheny number 20. Still carries P&LE lettering as displayed at Sewickley.posting.php?mode=edit&f=1&p=259568#
* unknown number Williams Grove, PA, Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain 15 (sold to H&BTM before WWII), displayed without pedestals or wheels.
* PRR 478396? Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, Strasburg, PA, Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain 16, display (sold to H&BTM before WWII)
* unknown number Reputed to exist somewhere: Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain RR number 17 (sold to H&BTM, date unknown) (from the Sandy Pond, NY collection).
* PRR 485994 Ligonier Valley Rail Museum at Idlewild Park, 3 miles west of Ligonier, PA. Sold by PRR to Monongahela RR 2/25/1919. Displayed as Ligonier Valley (LGV) 57. (Thanks to Alexander Mitchell for information)

A note on the N6b thread identified the one at the Red Caboose Motel in Strasburg as an NDa. If that is correct, it is a surprise to me. NDa's were 8-wheel versions of the ND. I wasn't aware that any were preserved, and would like to know more about it.

Tom

(edit 3/16/17): A photo posted below shows that the car at the Red Caboose Motel was a four wheel car. That makes her an ND --- not an NDa).


Last edited by Tom Davidson on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:16 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8392
Location: Baltimore, MD
Okay:
Here's the Ligonier caboose in its full glory:
http://www.lvrra.org/caboose.htm
Quote:
The caboose is a PRR Class ND cabin car built on April 4, 1905, with a Series Number of 485994. It received United States Safety Appliances Standard at Pitcairn on April 26, 1913. From the old records, the car was not marked as destroyed, so was still in service on that date. The caboose was one of 18 Class ND cabin cars that were eventually sold to the Monongahela Railroad in 1919, during Federal control of the railroads (during and immediately after World War I). The Monongahela had a Dragging the caboose, on rails, up the slope. Dragging the caboose, on rails, up the slope. serious shortage of cabooses at the time. The date of sale of 485944 was February 25, 1919.
According to the Pennsylvania Railroad the Class ND cabin car has a steel underframe, four wheels with a 13 foot, 6 inch wheelbase, a length of 29 feet coupler to coupler, and weighs 28,000 pounds. The Ligonier Valley Rail Road owned at least one of these cars, built in March 1907.

Image


As far as Sewickley, "Captive Cabeese" lists both one in Sewickley and a mysterious wooden one without details or location supposedly in Sewickley Heights, which I suspect are one and the same: "P&LE [no#], ex-P&OV/Shenango Furnace, wood, cupola, 4whl, Riverfront Park."


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:53 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
Thanks, Mr. Mitchell. I have updated the information accordingly in the original post.

The ND at Age of Steam did indeed come from Riverside Park in Sewickley. It was obtained along with a small 0-4-0t, which is also now at AoS. I have also edited the list to add that information.

Tom


Last edited by Tom Davidson on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 642
The 4 wheel PMcK&Y caboose that was displayed at Sewickley had served for years as Pittsburgh & Ohio Valley RR 8 on their trackage at Neville Island, PA. It went from there to Station Square in Pittsburgh, formerly the P&LE passenger station and offices. While there it was presumably property of Pittsburgh History & Landmarks Foundation, the owner of Station Square. When PH&LF disposed of most of the rail equipment at Station Square, the caboose and the ex-USS Porter 0-4-0T were moved to Sewickley. There may have been ownership by Fred Okie, former president of the Bessemer & Lake Erie (and a Sewickley resident) either before or during its public display there.

What became of the 4 wheel PRR caboose displayed at the private museum of PRR artifacts at Hollidaysburg, PA? It was still there in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Might be one of those already in the list.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
A derelict ND is reported to exist on private property in Cambria County, PA. It is said to be too far gone for restoration, and it is unknown whether any parts could be salvaged for other projects, such as restoration of the car at Williams Grove.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 956
An individual in Schuylkill County, Pa. has the truck of a PRR ND, on which he hopes to build a passenger car. When I saw it a couple of years ago, there were a few burned planks still attached. Unfortunately, I cannot recall where he said it was obtained.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 473
Location: Wall, NJ
Back in the 2008 time frame, I think it was the Danbury museum that sold off some equipment, including this bobber caboose frame. I think it was said to be PRR. Could this be the one in Schuylkill County, Pa?


Attachments:
Danberry Bobber 2008.jpg
Danberry Bobber 2008.jpg [ 173.29 KiB | Viewed 1859 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:37 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 66
"Unknown # former NDa at Red Caboose Motel, last painted as SP"

This was the one at the Carroll Park and Western RR in the 1960s and 1970s. Went to the Red Caboose Motel in 1979. Arrived at the CP&W around 1958. I'm still looking for info on it prior to 1958 but haven't had much luck.
Top Photo - Bloomsburg CP&W 1958
Middle Photo - Bloomsburg CP&W 1965
Bottom Photo - Red Caboose Motel 2014


Attachments:
CPW-No200-No303(BRF).jpg
CPW-No200-No303(BRF).jpg [ 271.26 KiB | Viewed 1776 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:46 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
Thanks, Andrew. I have added a note to the original post, indicating that this car is indeed an ND, and not an NDa.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
PRR 476052 added to list.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
I am bumping this up because I added some edits to the original post, including the addition of the derelict in Cambria County, and some comments on the frame in Schuylkill County and H&BT 15 at Williams Grove.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: PRR ND Cabin Cars
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:18 am
Posts: 11
Another PRR ND Cabin Car has been identified in the woods just north of Clarion PA. This former PRR Cabin Car was built in August 1916, and subsequently sold to the Lake Erie, Franklin and Clarion Railroad where it was on their roster as LEF #7. (NOTE: a second ND Cabin Car was also purchased by the shortline - LEF #6. Its whereabouts are unknown).
Following retirement from the LEF&C, caboose #7 and another wooden home-built LEF&C caboose #592 were moved off rail, minus wheels, and became cabins north of Clarion. The land on which the cabooses sit has recently changed hands. The current owner is planning to destroy both cabooses this winter unless a suitable arrangement can be made to make the cabooses go away. The current owner wishes to remain anonymous, and has asked me to screen any serious inquiries.

Kevin Moore 814-229-6354 kmoore/dmd@comcast.net

I have images of both cabooses, however this site is rejecting my uploads "The image file you tried to attach is invalid". Please PM me if you are serious and desire images.


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