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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:40 pm
Posts: 24
Kevin Gilliam wrote:
SteamEnthusiast4000 wrote:
It's been mentioned several times in previous articles, but the short answer is that the possible issue lies not with the turntable itself, but the physical curve and vertical curve (coming off the 3% grade) of the tracks leading up to the turntable (which are set in the street). You can turn it if you get it there....but you may not be able to get it there without some expensive street and track repair.


Correct. According to the article linked above "1309 is too large to be rotated on the turntable" but does not specify why. The issue is with the curve at the station and grade leading up to the turntable, not the length once it's there.


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:07 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
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This has been beaten to death on here before. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41659&hilit=1309+turntable&start=60 The table is 100' and the loco about 99' over pulling faces according to the folio. Track geometry needs to be adjusted a bit to get onto the table. Reporters are notorious for poor fact checking, ignoring or confusing facts and not taking good notes in interviews. The key to successfully taking in media is to not believe anything you don't know for absolute fact. Everything else is just entertainment.

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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:14 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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According to this story a tentative plan is for 1309 to start break-in runs prior to July 4: https://www.times-news.com/news/local_n ... c0d84.html


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:09 am
Posts: 89
TrainDetainer wrote:
This has been beaten to death on here before. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41659&hilit=1309+turntable&start=60 The table is 100' and the loco about 99' over pulling faces according to the folio. Track geometry needs to be adjusted a bit to get onto the table. Reporters are notorious for poor fact checking, ignoring or confusing facts and not taking good notes in interviews. The key to successfully taking in media is to not believe anything you don't know for absolute fact. Everything else is just entertainment.


Honestly, even when I read article, I was still assuming that #1309 is still capable of being turned on the turntable at Frostburg, and I figured that the author had said the wrong thing. Still, I figured better to be safe than sorry. That is why I asked for confirmation one more time.

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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 131
I recall years ago Jack Showalter telling me of his concern putting his G5's on the table and crawling on as slow as possible because the track approaches the table on an upgrade and the table is ofcourse level.

He complained to an FRA inspector about this and asked why there was no regulation requiring a length of level rail before reaching the table. The FRA man replied "Because we didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to lay track like that."

If this was never corrected then there will be a much more difficult problem with an articulated engine of that length. Easy does it. Hopefully!


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 342
Location: Northern WV
There's only about an engines length of track between Depot Street and the turntable. With the road being so close, I don't know how a level stretch could easily be achieved. I suppose you could raise the tracks and Depot Street but that would probably disturb the alignment between the passenger cars and depot. The turntable was shoehorned next to a steep hill in the only available space when the WMSR was established.


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3553
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Just for the record, the turntable at Frostburg is on a part of the right of way that continued through a tunnel under the town. This line, part of what was the Cumberland & Pennsylvania, continued on down Georges Creek through a town called Lonaconing to Luke, Md., and across the river to Piedmont, W.Va. and a connection with the Baltimore & Ohio. Part of this line is leased by a shortline operator Georges Creek Railway, which has several ex WM diesels in authentic lettering.

It would be cool to reconnect all this, but what a pile of money it would take!! Besides opening the tunnel and relaying the track, you would have to tunnel under a pair of fills over the R-O-W that support I-68!!

http://www.wmwestsub.com/georgescreeksu ... tunnel.htm


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:08 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
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From the Google Earth photo above, it looks to me like No. 1309 will have to push its train back to Cumberland, unless another locomotive is stationed at Frostburg to pull the train into the clear so the big engine can escape to the other track, then couple to the rear of the train to lead it back to Cumberland in reverse. Is there a second passing siding in Frostburg?


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:56 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:37 pm
Posts: 52
Hindsite is always better but maybe these folks would have been better off repairing the big, 2-8-0 and using a diesel pusher when handling bigger passenger loads than trying to restore an articulated locomotive.

Every good idea looks good on paper and causes excitement but when it comes to common sense and reality they often aren't in evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:01 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3553
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
G. W. Laepple wrote:
From the Google Earth photo above, it looks to me like No. 1309 will have to push its train back to Cumberland, unless another locomotive is stationed at Frostburg to pull the train into the clear so the big engine can escape to the other track, then couple to the rear of the train to lead it back to Cumberland in reverse. Is there a second passing siding in Frostburg?


Some years back, I was able to talk to a member of the management, and if my memory is right, he said they were planning to extend that siding, as well as adjust the curves at the turntable (that's the one place where things might be a bit tight for the 1309). Of course, that still leaves the vertical curve--actually a kink--to get onto the table.

I don't think the job would take that long to do, it would just cost money.


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
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Location: Northern WV
G. W. Laepple wrote:
From the Google Earth photo above, it looks to me like No. 1309 will have to push its train back to Cumberland, unless another locomotive is stationed at Frostburg to pull the train into the clear so the big engine can escape to the other track, then couple to the rear of the train to lead it back to Cumberland in reverse. Is there a second passing siding in Frostburg?


I rode the WMSR this past October and did not notice any other passing sidings at all. It would be difficult to install one now since a Rail/Trail runs alongside the excursion route. The trail mostly is laid over the ROW where the second track used to be.

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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
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Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
There once was another passing siding, not sure where, but it was removed in the early '90's and the rail used on the South Branch Valley to build a new siding for the feed mill at Moorefield. I was the RE on that job. I was surprised at the time because the rail was almost unused, and as I recall the contractor got it at a bargain price, along with all of the OTM.


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:40 pm
Posts: 24
G. W. Laepple wrote:
From the Google Earth photo above, it looks to me like No. 1309 will have to push its train back to Cumberland, unless another locomotive is stationed at Frostburg to pull the train into the clear so the big engine can escape to the other track, then couple to the rear of the train to lead it back to Cumberland in reverse. Is there a second passing siding in Frostburg?


John Garner has mentioned in some of the update videos 1309 will pull the train to Frostburg and reverse back down the hill. A diesel will simply be on the rear of the train to go back down the hill. Simple enough.

Here is some information on the siding installation from 2017:

https://westernmarylandscenicrailroad.blogspot.com/2017/10/number-9s-tucker-switch-installation.html


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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:28 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Bucks County, PA
iamdarb wrote:
G. W. Laepple wrote:
From the Google Earth photo above, it looks to me like No. 1309 will have to push its train back to Cumberland, unless another locomotive is stationed at Frostburg to pull the train into the clear so the big engine can escape to the other track, then couple to the rear of the train to lead it back to Cumberland in reverse. Is there a second passing siding in Frostburg?


John Garner has mentioned in some of the update videos 1309 will pull the train to Frostburg and reverse back down the hill. A diesel will simply be on the rear of the train to go back down the hill. Simple enough.


Which completely negates the whole “cost savings” part of not restoring 734 and needing a diesel on the busier days. “Hey, let’s spend over $2 million on this steam restoration and STILL need a diesel every day!!”

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 Post subject: Re: WMRS former C&O 1309 Restoration / Progress
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 342
Location: Northern WV
The stretch of railroad from Switch #9 to Frostburg on the old C&P ROW is uphill (about a mile, I think). If they are installing a passing track down on the old WM roadbed at switch #9, there shouldn't be a need for a diesel. 1309 could reverse the trainset slowly down to the new relatively level passing track and do an engine run-around and pull the consist (tender-first) back to Cumberland. Not as aesthetic as turning the engine but is the standard practice on most tourist operations (Strasburg, Wilmington & Western, etc.).


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