In another recent thread, I mentioned that the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum had been given a steam locomotive bell (see photo). Like the headlight that was donated by the Lake Shore Model Railroad Club at the same time, we received no info as to who originally gave those two items to the club many years ago. There are a few hints on the bell itself. In the second photo, the interior of the bell is shown. Note what appears to be red paint. Perhaps this might give an indication of what railroads painted the interior of their bells red. In the thread on the headlight, I mentioned that the club believes that the two items may have been donated by the Illinois Central Railroad. Note the number embossed into the top of the bell; 76, shown in the third photo. Now the only railroad I knew that had an engine numbered 76 was the Frisco, which had acquired a 2-8-0 from a short line and renumbered it this number when incorporating it into the SLSF roster. Later that engine was sold to the Mississippian Railroad and it still exists today...with its bell! Certainly other rail lines had locomotives numbered 76 and I have since found out that the ICRR was one of them! Locomotive 76 was an 0-6-0 built by the Brooks Works of the American Locomotive Company in 1904 (serial number 28011). I have not been able to locate a photo of Illinois Central number 76, but I have received info that it was on the IC's roster at least through 1946. Might this be the locomotive where this bell came from? Or are the other candidates? Any help, or ideas, greatly appreciated!

Les

Hi Les ---

IC seems to be a reasonable guess as to the source, but I believe lots of roads had low-numbered steam engines, including 2-8-0's on the MoPac.

I used to own a bell from an IC 4-8-2 type engine, and it had red inside, but I've heard that red was very common on other roads as well. My IC 4-8-2 bell was traded to the Illinois Railway Museum and installed on N&W Y-3a 2-8-8-2 no. 2050.

Tom

It's interesting that it looks like the arm for the rope has been cut off on the left, and there is a small crank on the right for an air ringer. Is there an anchor point on the yoke for the air cylinder? Or was this bell pieced together?

I'm not sure that many railroads actually put the engine number on the bell. It could be a pattern number or some kind of a part number.

EW -

Don't know. It could have been converted to an air ringer I guess. If the bell IS from IC #76, there were other engines purchased from Brooks at the same time. At least numbers 75 through 84, and possibly some additional ones. Perhaps a photo of one of them will show up and answer the question about whether there was such an air ringer conversion. Or perhaps someone with a knowledge of Illinois Central steam will know if those 0-6-0's were so converted.


Les

There appear to be two holes drilled through the yoke below the crank, in what would be the right place for mounting the air ringer. As you suggested, photos of the IC locomotives in question might indicate what was actually done, but keep in mind that not all of the locomotives (if any) may have been converted; this could have been a one-off conversion for a specific assignment rather than a class-wide conversion. Still, photos of the locomotives in question (or better yet, some sort of documentation) could provide some clues as to what really was done.

Mike S.

Yes, I agree, it's a Baldwin bell. I can tell by the shape of the upper part of the bell and the yoke. Santa Fe usually hand stamped the engine number on the top of the bell in fairly large figures. I had a bell that had two numbers, one had been peened out but you could still read it, both 2-8-2's.

Frisco1522 -

Well, we know that the Illinois Central actually did, even if the subject 76 on this particular bell might not have come from an IC engine. We know that the Santa Fe did (from a post in this thread). From an old published story, I recall that the Southern Pacific moved bells around and that the number of each locomotive that had a particular bell was marked on that bell. I once found a steam locomotive bell being used as a church bell and upon inspection, found a number that corresponded to 2-8-2's on the Louisville & Nashville, the road that was closest to that church. I am sure that some railroads didn't mark locomotive numbers on bells, but there certainly are those that did.


Les

locopilot750 -

Thanks for this info on the Santa Fe bell, and the fact that you (and "Steel City") both think that "number 76" is a Baldwin bell. I won't argue the fact as I am far from any kind of an expert on locomotive bells.

I got a nice note from Richard Leonard (of Keokuk Union Station "fame") who advised me that the Illinois Central sold 0-6-0 #76 in September of 1945 to the Sioux City Terminal Railway. He thought that that sale, and the fact that this bell is a Baldwin and the loco is an Alco/Brooks, probably meant that this bell is NOT off of that IC 0-6-0. BUT, as pointed out above by "locopilot750", railroads switched bells around and the ICRR did a lot of rebuilding of steam and the IC did have Baldwin steamers of a number of different wheel arrangements. So, a switch of a Baldwin bell to this Brooks engine, is not out of the realm of possibility. Also, remember that we don't know that the bell was donated to the Lake Shore club by the IC; perhaps someone acquired the bell from the SCTR and then turned around and gave it to the club.

Although I wasn't able to find a photo of IC 0-6-0 #76, I thought that I'd see if there might be one out there of the 76 as a Sioux City Terminal engine. Not surprisingly, I wasn't able to find one. What was rather amazing though, was that I found photos of two other second hand SCTR 0-6-0's; both ex-Milwaukee Road. Here's what I found:

Number 11 (ex-MILW #1444) sitting in front of their roundhouse on 5/14/53.

Number 15 (ex-MILW #1424) on 9/13/50 and noted as not retired until 10/18/56.

How did the ex-IC #76 fit into this Sioux City Terminal roster? Did it come before numbers 11 and 15? Was it purchased after them? Or was it in between? Would be nice to at least know what number the SCTR gave the IC engine, even if a photo is not available. Anyone have that info?

Les

Take the top nut and washer off. If it is a Baldwin bell, the class number will be stamped on the top of the shank. The RRMuseum of Pa has the class number records. The number will be for the original locomotive. It could have been swapped to others during shopping.

The bell on CNJ 113 (an Alco) has the bell from a Baldwin camelback 4-6-0 suitably stamped.

Bernie

Bernie -

Interesting. I'd be willing to give it a try to see what I might find.


Les

Bernie, thank you for the useful tip. I'd heard that Baldwin bells were marked with class numbers (just like Baldwin builder's plates and many other Baldwin parts), but I couldn't figure out where the mark might be. You've answered my question.

-Philip Marshall

After many years of wishing and daydreaming about buying a steam locomotive bell, I recently acquired what I believe to be a Rhode Island Locomotive Works bell from the NYNH&H. (The provenance of the bell is murky, but it came from a collection in southern New England so a New Haven origin seems most likely. As for the Rhode Island part, it's definitely of the characteristic Rhode Island L. W. design -- tall and narrow with a flat top, decorative ball-shaped nut on top of the yoke, etc. ) It's painted red on the inside and stamped on the top with three different engine numbers: 158, 300, and 327.

According to Charles Fisher's roster information published in the R&LHS Bulletin years ago, the New Haven had two steam locomotives numbered 158: the first a Rogers 4-4-0, and the second a Rhode Island 4-6-0 built in 1903 that was later renumbered 960. (New Haven 300 and 327 were both Rhode Island 2-6-0s.) I was able to find a picture of the 960 (ex-158) in the 1930s and the bell seems to match, so I'm happy.

-Philip Marshall

As the proud owner of a Baldwin bell (and yes, the locomotive code numbers are stamped into the top of the bell--mine's from a Northern Pacific 0-6-0), I don't think it's a Baldwin--the shape of the bell, cradle and yoke is completely different.

Congrats Philip, on your Rhode Island Locomotive Works bell. A photo of that New Haven bell would certainly be welcome.

Thanks Steve, for the photo of your beautiful Baldwin bell off of that Northern Pacific 0-6-0. I must admit that my expertise on bells is non existant and so I can't see the nuances of the differences you describe in your opinion that our "76" bell is not a Baldwin.

The ongoing "mystery" still not solved.


Les