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 Post subject: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:12 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:46 am
Posts: 6
Location: World Wide
What is the big hype about Canadian Steam Locomotives?
Are FANS really that arrogant???? In this day and age with insurance and every other hurdle why are FANS turning away from them??
A steam locomotive is not a common sight unless you work with them. I have never heard any one complain when they trip down to Cuba to view the American engines that run there. But run a Canadian Loco in the USA and people have problems or little interest.
That was a thing when the 261/2816 ran when the CP engine got out front people left. Do you realize what it takes to run a steamer????? and this is the respect that the good ol boys from the USA give????? Fans should be greatful to even see steam locomotives, they do stop traffic even if you are not a fan. Put yourself in the seat of the 2816 or on the crew, how would you take it being snubbed by people that are suppose to be fans?
I don't get it please explain this to me.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:20 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:50 am
Posts: 489
Location: Columbia, MD
Unfortunately boorishness and ignorance are not restricted to certain hobbies or any other groups of people. As a former employee of VIA Rail Canada, I am a big fan of Canadian steam, especially CP. But I have heard British railfans in the UK tell me that American steam locomotives are ugly because they are not streamlined. Go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:26 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 1061
personally I like all steam. There have been some German,Canadian, and other countries with some great looking locomotives. I think one grip some of us might have is with Steamtown running Canadian engines wh--ile some of America's best sit cold. To have a Berk,Big Boy, or a Reading-
4-8- just sit there while others are run does upset some.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:42 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:19 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Washington, D.C.
Yes, we have boors in our hobby. There are boors in every hobby. To pay too much attention to them only rewards their behavior. And to be candid, I personally find singling people out for public scorn--even when they deserve it--to be nearly as unappealing as the behavior the provokes the scorn. Less intramural bashing within our community is my recommendation--no matter whether the bashees deserve it or not.

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Erik Ledbetter
www.steamsafari.com


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:21 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm
Posts: 283
Location: New Jersey
I personally prefer American locomotives over European locomotives. If you think about it though Canadian and even say alot of Mexican and South American locomotives either are US locos or look similar to them. Like Canadian locomotives have an American flavor to them. To me a steam locomotive isn't about looking streamlined and pretty. Its about looking like it means business and is black (or green for the Southern Railway). That is mostly what steam locomotives were built for. Just to get the job done not look good. I think that because of that though some of the best looking locomotives in the world have come out of the US. Now don't get me wrong I like some streamlined. I only like two and that's the N&W Js and the SP Daylights. Those are good looking locomotives. Well until next time. Keep on steaming.

-Eric

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Eric Bolton
Superintendent/Owner
East Tigard & Southern RR Co.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:37 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Maine - Montana
All steam in any form is great, but every one has something they don't care for. I guess for some its Canadian Steam. I'll tell the truth, I'm not the biggest fan of Pennsy's K4's (Don't hunt me down with pitch forks and torches) Would I go out of my way to see one run, sure! I'll go out of my way for any locomotive. In this day in age you take what you can get.
Myself, I'm a Canadian steam junky. If it has a CN Maple Leaf or CP Bever on the side, I'm there.

Steam is Steam, You take what you get.
-Justin Franz


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:49 pm
Posts: 135
Location: The Pinewoods of South Jersey
I don't think we should be complaining about any steam locomotives that arein active service in this day of age. There are odd people in all kinds of interest groups that have small minded ideas about how things should be done,run or seen. I have been fortunate to ride behind steam here and in UK and have been doing so for about 45 years. Every country has it way of doing things and thier respective railway equipment has it nuances and appaerance charateristics. My self I like them all . Sure we each have our favorites based on personal likings, but in my book, steam power is steam power. Pay no mind the detractors, as ignorance is thier
favorite company. I am on the engine crew of a small 30" gauge Shay in Pennsylvania and see this attitude thing all the time. There are many people with intellegent questions about steam power and then there are the "goofy' ones who have to say something about "this don't look right' or "wasn't that suppose to be ...?). Then you ask them if they would like to ride in the cab, and they turn into a humble quivering mass and invaribaly say at the end of the ride. Thanks, that was the first time I ever rode in a steam engine, I didn't know this or I didn't know that. Thats the end of my rant, sorry.


Last edited by Warren on Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:46 am
Posts: 6
Location: World Wide
I thank you all for the replies on this topic. All positive GOOD replies.
We should be thankful for what we can experience no matter what road.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:05 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
Personally, being from Philly, I'm a Baldwin fan. Seen them running in the USA, Cuba, China & Argentina. But those wood burning North British engines in Paraguay looked fine too. If it's steam & in steam, I'm a happy guy.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:24 pm
Posts: 283
Location: New Jersey
Yes everyone is right. I am only 16 and I have had the good fortune of being in the cab of a few steam locomotives under steam all the way from standard gauge to 2ft gauge(a personal favorite). I have also been on board the Porter #46 restoration project at the New Jersey Museum of Transportation since day one when it started three years ago and I plan to see it through. It doesn't matter if its an American loco or say a German loco. If its under steam its for me! In this day in age we don't have much left. Sad.

-Eric

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Eric Bolton
Superintendent/Owner
East Tigard & Southern RR Co.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 1140
Location: San Francisco
Folks,

A part of the answer to this discussion is the Steamtown NHS contraversy. A lot of people were upset that a collection that had about 40% Canadian engines was choosen for a large influx of American tax dollars.

Especially when there were more historic sites like East Broad Top RR in the same state.

The choice was made before my time in the NPS but for what it is worth I like to see any steam engine in steam. Especially narrow gauge.

Ted Miles


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 Post subject: Canadian Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:29 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Pittsburgh PA
I think the bottom line in this case is that there's more Canadian steam left. It's a bit of a shame that that's the case, but that's how it went down at the end of steam. Someone older and wiser than I would probably be able to give a better reason as to why it's like this.

For example, just off the top of my head, I can think of at least four examples of the well-designed CP Class G-5 Pacific, all of which have run in the past decade or so.

I'm not saying that there aren't some wonderful examples of American locomotive engineering still around (God knows I'm studying them like crazy), but it's still not like Canada where many classes of locomotives have multiple surviving examples. With the notable exception of the Big Boy, I can't think of a class of American locomotive that is particuraly well represented in this age.

Granted, I'd like to see more American stuff at Steamtown, but that's what was available when F. Nelson Blount went looking for motive power. And lets look on the bright side, with the exception of all-weather cabs (which some U.S. roads used anyway) there's no real visual difference between American and Canadian engines.

I've yet to see anyone snubbing a trip or photo-opportunity because it's "just a Canadian engine" but if that's the case, they might want to re-think their reasoning. Better Canadian than nothing at all. Let's appreciate what we have, and support those who keep the fires hot.


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:37 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:37 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Maine - Montana
I think one reason that we have more Canadian steam locomtives perserved (Not as many operating though), is that they where around a few years longer then its countparts in the US. Although the steam era ended in the mid 1950's in the United States, in Canada it lasted untill early 1960. By the time the preservation community took notice, it was easy to pick up a Canadian steamer mostly becouse it would still be in operational condition or close to it, closer then an American engine that had been sitting for a few years, those that were left. Good example is the Steamtown collection.

-Justin Franz


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:24 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Scranton, PA
As was mentioned above, the "snobbery" against Canadian steam locomotives comes from blind patriotism to the USA combined with "reading is believing." If the 2816 had Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo lettered on its tender, the Canadian uproar wouldn't result, because most people are geographically-challenged. They are the same who think the Burlington Route ran in Vermont, and that the Pennsylvania RR ran exclusively in PA. Once again, education is the key to acceptance of anything you don't know about.
I remember one time at Steamtown, when a family was beaming with pride because they saw the Baldwin Locomotive Works switcher under steam. It was because they lived in Baldwinsville, NY, on Long Island. I guess any connection people can make with a machine will be made, and it may lead to some loyalty we historians and preservationists can't comprehend.


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 Post subject: Re: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES????????
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Pasadena, CA
Canadian or American, steam is a pleasure to see run. While I definitely have a preference towards the raw power of some of the larger American locomotives, and even enjoy some of the horriibly meandering pipefitting, I still relish any chance I have to see a locomotive under steam. I am just happy to see that people are taking the time to preserve these beasts so that the next generation may know what it feels like to work on the most cantankerous pieces of machinery on the planet.

I really think that is the great equalizer. When you think about it, be it Canadian, American, Mexican or Argentinian, built by ALCO, Baldwin, Lima or MLW steam locomotives are a giant pain in the ... back ... to work on and maintain. The fact that so many are still operating is astounding to me, and I personally cherish every chance I have to work on, operate, ride or watch one of these beasts. I expect most of the people on this board feel the same.

Here's to all the organizations out there maintaining these icons of the world's industrial heritage. Good work and keep it up!

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Jeff Lamb

"Hey California, where ya from?"


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