Hot Metal is absolutely right. There is a narrow corridor between being a pessimist and a realist. There is a slightly wider corridor between being a realist and an optimist. Pulling the 643 out isn't going to be easy, but to simply commit yourself to "It will never happen", when that statement fails everyday, just doesn't help the cause. I'm not advocating being "Pollyanna" and already committing CSX to pulling her out, but jeez, you haven't even proposed it yet! Furthermore, merely laying temporary panel track could effect retrieval without putting in a switch. Deep pockets required? Yes. Not on the horizon? Yes. Not going to happen? Who can say?
Each year of past several, we have seen one "miracle" after another.
You might even see C&O 614 run again, unless Ross refuses that prospect.

As others have mentioned, a temporary cutover is quite possible, and not really all that difficult. Whether or not CSX would allow it is another question. Then again, if you throw enough money at the problem, it's most likely possible.

Another option is to spot a couple of flatcars on the main and crane her onto them. I don't know for certain, but you might have to take the boiler off the running gear for weight and/or clearance issues.

That approach would also eliminate the entire issue of moving it on it's own wheels, which would seem to be a good option.

I just can't help myself. I have to ask:

Why are we even discussing this again? This thing seems to come up every so often, similar to a certain K4, which will remain numberless. The result is always the same, too. Lots of repeated ideas, barely suppressed anger, angst, and unjustified optimism.

After all, it's not our (individually or collectively) locomotive and it's not our railroad (CSX), unless some of us own a few shares.

Sure, I'd hate to see it scrapped as much as anybody, but it's the property of a private individual. No matter how much it galls us to admit it, he owes us nothing. Not even an explanation. Face it.

Would we be better off to focus our attention, ideas, enthusiasm and eternal optimism on something else that we CAN help? The 643 certainly isn't any better off for all our wishful thinking, hand-wringing, and bed wetting about it.

This isn't intended to add more pages to an overlong and so far unproductive debate among onlookers.

OK, I'm done venting. I feel better already.

That's how discussion forums work. That's why they're called "discussion forums", people discuss stuff there. If the discussion doesn't interest you, instead of hitting reply, hit next, or wander off to Railpictures and look at pretty photos...

Oh, wait, you have more to say? But why are you discussing it? after all, you just said that the result is always the same. Oh, I see, it's OK for YOU to discuss it, just not other folks. Ok, got it...



You're correct, the owner can do as he wants. He can slice it up into razor blades tomorrow if he so chooses. But he has expresses a desire to preserve the engine, and he's also invested some money into doing so, albeit years ago.

In any case, he will eventually either make a decision, or his estate will once he's gone. At that point, the options will become more than mere discussions. Something will be done, and many of us would prefer it not be scrapping the engine.

Often these situations require moving quickly. If the parties involved have some idea of the situation and what may be possible, that could mean the difference between saving the locomotive and not. Think it can't happen? They said the "Lost Engines of Roanoke" couldn't be saved either. Fortunately, not everyone gave up so easily, and they were saved. The same could happen here.




Go for it... Instead of trying to toss a wet blanket on this topic, go start a discussion you consider to be useful. This forum software is very advanced, and it can handle two or more simultaneous discussions. So rather than whining that you don't like this one, start one of your own.

OK, I'm done venting. I feel better already.

You would be amazed the number of people who apparently think that internet forums cannot handle more than one topic at a time, since there always seems to be people out there who insist that one topic be concluded so that other "more relevant" topics can be discussed!

I wouldn't be amazed at all. I see it all the time on forums dedicated to my varied interests, and I'm glad someone else pointed this out because I thought I was alone in being baffled by it...

At the moment, there are three obstacles to preserving this locomotive more securely: the physical logistics, the financial logistics, and the legal logistics.

The physical logistics, as noted, are getting more difficult by the day. But really, they could still cut in a temporary switch and roll it on its wheels if the owner and CSX (and any other RR) are willing.

The legal is a conundrum. Either you wait for him to die and hope an estate wants to unload itself of an albatross, or someone (or something) convinces the current owner of a different course of action.

Both of these are irrelevant absent financing. If the owner suddenly turned around in five minutes and turned over title to the RR Museum of Pa., or Greenville RR Park or the Lake Shore Ry. Museum or whoever, how long would it take the Friends Of Whichever Railroad Museum to raise the cash to move it and find it a home?

The "Lost Engines of Roanoke" can be your model. Wait out the recalcitrant owner, then show yourselves competent to handle the challenge before you, and worthy of the "big guys" (NS in their case, CSX in this case) cooperating with you and doing you a few really, really BIG favors. And think up Plan B in the meantime. (That "buy the property it sits on" idea is so crazy, it just might work.)

Thanks for proving my point.

Keep flogging the deceased 643 equine at your pleasure.

Some of us have more productive things to do, such as locomotives and cars that do run, or that stand a fair chance of doing so.

I'm done now.

Then why are you wasting your time here being a troll? Go do them...

No need for a switch. They're expensive and take longer to build. You simply build panel track to the clearance point, and then on the big day, you "bend the iron", literally, and connect, temporarily to the panel track. Drag the loco out, rebuild the main, and you're done. Simple, really. (Not cheap, but simple...)




Exactly! Who knows, maybe this discussion could be the start of the project. Is it likely? Not really. Is it possible? Definitely!

There's nothing wrong with discussing the options and exploring ideas. Maybe we're all wasting our time. Oh well, that's the participant's choice.

Oh, and I agree "Buy the property and build a building" sounds like an excellent idea! Much more realistic than "Wait for NS to buy it and rebuild it for passenger excursions."

"barely suppressed anger, angst" - These people better get to a doctor, and quickly. There is no real place for anger in this forum. Angst? Better get a grip on the real world.

"and unjustified optimism". Never unjustified. It keeps stirring solutions and giving birth to new ideas. And let's face it, this locomotive, as a historical artifact, deserves our most positive voices and support, as does that mysterious K4s.

I just posted on the 643 Facebook page an offer to donate a couple days of my labor and use of my equipment to help prepare 643 for the winter. Even if the long term problems remain unsolved, the short term problem of weather and corrosion still has to be addressed.

That was sort of my point -- that is the only option, and it has been made twice as difficult (or eight times more) by the removal of the switch and the spur and the siding...

Excellent idea. I'm on the other side of the state or I would volunteer to help as well. It could be possible that, given a few years time and some dedicated persons who get permission and donate their hours to help weatherize and lubricate this beast, that the owner may see this engine for what is has become, essentially a public property. He may finally give in and set things in motion for it's rescue. Or he may take a torch and cut right through the tarp you strapped down and the grease that you applied, at your own expense.

I sincerely doubt Mr. Campbell is going to destroy his locomotive. He should act on its immediate preservation and movement a.s.a.p., before the decision is taken from his able hands.