I was wondering if anyone here could suggest a Railway Museum that covers all railways, since most seem to be specific to one railway. The reason I ask is that I have the silver spike that was presented to Enrique Creel at the ceremony celebrating the commencement of construction of the Ferro Carril Chihuahua al Pacifico railway. I do not believe they have a museum, and if they did it would be in Mexico, and not sure I would want to hand it over down there. Its been in a safe deposit box for 50 years that I know of, seems a shame to leave it sitting there. Provenance is as clean as it gets. No its not for sale, either it goes in a museum, or stays in the safe.

(Sorry, had to edit because I remembered correct name of railway)

I think Mexico has a national railway museum, or a history museum with a strong railroad component. I was approached a while back about a project, restoring as steam locomotive connected to Pancho Villa, which never materialized.....no longer have contact information. Maybe you could trade it for a FEC 4-8-2.

dave

If I were going to donate anything to any RR museum South of Texas, it would be the Guatemala RR museum that has not been organized for more then a few years. I'm biased though, as its the only really promising RR museum that I know of down that way.

Though, I would not donate anything to any museum south of Texas.

How about the Smithsonian?

That object seems just unique enough to interest them and it would probably not mean much to any other museum up here. If you should donate it, be prepared for the "Smith's" to trade it back to Mexico one day for some other unique artifact that is more North American based.

The Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicanos (the National Museum of Mexican Railways) is the premier railway museum in Mexico and is located in Puebla, Puebla.
Their website (Spanish only) is here http://tinyurl.com/3x7loke Rather appropriate, the last four letters of the tinyurl, don't you think? What a koinkadink!!

An article on the museum by Todd Minsk is here http://tinyurl.com/34qqcsm

I'm sure someone on the museum's staff speaks English...there is a directory of staff on the website. Just send an email to the Director and someone will answer in English.

If you'd like, I can post your inquiry on the MexList Yahoo! Group, as many members of that group live in Mexico and are associated with various railway museums there. Todd Minsk is a member. You probably should go ahead and join MexList so you can ask your questions directly. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/groups/MEXLIST

In regard to donating the spike to the Smithsonian and that institution trading it to Mexico for some U.S.-revelant railroad artifact, bear in mind that the official policy of the Mexican government is to protect all historic artifacts relating to the country's patrimony, no matter the origin of the object. IIRC, this policy was brought about, at least in part, by the quasi-legal "theft" of several steam locomotives from the Yucatan by the Disney World people. While the worst of the Alco PA's came back to the States (very legally), the last operating example was retained and is part of the collection at Puebla.

And a small correction - it's Ferrocarril, one word, meaning "railway" or "railroad", abbreviated "FC". Plural is "Ferrocarriles", usually abbreviated "FF.CC." Saying "Ferrocarril Chihuahua al Pacifico railroad" is akin to "chaise lounge".

Jim Tatum.

Jim Tatum.

You might want to check with a tax attorney before donating outside the US. I believe there may not be a deduction in that case.
The Colfax Railroad Museum would be interested in the spike. We specialize in artifacts for our displays. We are in the top five in the US for dining car china, and in the top ten for lighting and general artifact displays.

Herbert Sakalaucks
Chairman
Colfax Railroad Museum

I think many would agree that a really good home for this rare and historic artifact is in the National History Museum in Mexico City. There is a national museum district built around Chapultepec Park in Mexico City is anchored by the National Museum of Anthropology (which is one of the most highly acclaimed museums in the world). I've linked the contact information for the museum of national history. I have visited these museums and can tell you they are first rate.

http://mnh.inah.gob.mx/contactanos/contactanos.html

Thanks for the replies! The spike came into my possesion about 5 years ago in an atty's office, I had it less than 24 hours before it went back into safe deposit, its engraved with the date and name of Enrique Creel and Ferrocarrill Chihuahua al Pacifico and more, all in spanish of course, I have not seen it or touched it since then.

I'm hesitant to give it to a museum in Mexico, we probably would never get it back, and tax wise there is no write off. And after 100 years theres still not a lot of trust between my family and the Mexican gov't :)

As a family heirloom I'm not sure I have the right to donate it and get a write off, is it possible to just "Loan" it to a museum that would display it? Sitting in a safe deposit even I do not get to appreciate this piece of history.

If you do make a semi-permanent loan arrangement with any entity for display, just make sure to have at least a basic written agreement about retaining ownership and conditions for reclaiming/returning the spike.

I know someone who inherited a significant collection of Maximilian I of Mexico items. He and his brother had a devil of a time finding a home for these items. Smithsonian said neat!, but it is not our area of collection. After more inquiries they got the impression that the National Museum in Mexico would not be necessary a safe location: A politico might get a hold of the items ....

This is a hard item. Probably it would be safest with a museum in the U.S. But most, like the Smithsonian, are prudent about their collection policies. But, some possible Museums and similar institutions to inquire of come to my mind.

After a bit of home and internet research, I have to say that what I find casts serious doubt on the provenance of the silver spike. Here are a few facts:

1) Henry Clay Creel Cuilty (a.k.a. Enrique Creel) died in 1931. At that time, the railroad was still the Ferrocarril Kansas City, Mexico & Oriente and had only been completed from Ojinaga to Chihuahua. The line further west to La Junta was owned by the Ferrocarril Nor-Oeste de Mexico, which ran from Ciudad Juarez through La Junta to Chihuahua.

2) The FC Chihuahua al Pacifico did not come into existence until sometime between 1941 and 1957. My basis for this is my own copies of "The Official Guide of the Railways", whose June 1941 edition lists the KCM&O and the NOdeM, and whose
October 1957 edition shows the Ch-P now in existence and owning the lines of the two former roads.

3) The completion of the Ch-P across the mountains, connecting Ojinaga and Chihuahua to Los Mochis and Topolobampo, did not happen until 1961, some thirty years after Creel's death.

I don't pretend to know what that silver spike of yours actually is, but what it definitely isn't is one presented to Enrique Creel upon the completion of the FC Chihuahua al Pacifico.

Jim Tatum.

He didn't say the spike was presented upon completion, but rather "commencement of construction."

Matt

This may be of interest to an organization that exhibits items from the Kansas City, Mexico and Orient Railroad. Even though the ChP was completed after the Orient was merged into the Santa Fe, it helps tell the story of Arthur Stilwell's vision.

The Railway Museum of San Angelo, TX is located in a KCM&O depot. I have never visited it myself, but according to their website they have KCM&O items in their collection. They even have a model railroad that interprets the Orient line from Texas through the Copper Canyon. http://railwaymuseumsanangelo.homestead.com/index.html

Alternatively, the main Orient Shops were in Wichita, where our museum is located. Our curator rotates our exhibits, so if we did a display dedicated to the Orient it may not be a permanent display. You are welcome to contact our curator if you have questions regarding how we may use it. curator@gptm.us

There is also the Oklahoma Railway Museum in Oklahoma City. The Orient never went to Oklahoma City, but they have a restored Orient Depot on their grounds. Its been a few years since my last visit, but they did have some interior displays in modified rolling stock. http://www.oklahomarailwaymuseum.org

Drew Meek
Great Plains Transportation Museum
http://www.gptm.us

Yes, it was the commencement ceremony, not completion. I am a direct product of the Terrazas-Creel family, history has documented that linneage well, I could not lie about that if I tryed. Ferrocarril Nor-Oeste sounds familiar, I guess I need to pull the spike out and get all the correct info, and pics. It will be about 2 months till I get to it, Texas is a great place to spend the winter.

Kristin

Matt,

Thank you for correcting what I should have seen to begin with. However, the Chihuahua al Pacifico construction in whatever form obviously did not begin during Henry Creel's lifetime. As I stated before, he died in 1931 and the lines east and north of the Barrancas del Cobre (Copper Canyon) were still the Kansas City, Mexico y Oriente and the Nor-Oeste de Mexico ten years later, in 1941.

It is possible that this spike was presented to Sr. Creel during the start of construction of one of those lines, but not the Ch-P, as it did not exist during Sr. Creel's lifetime. Perhaps someone has inserted the Ch-P reference after the fact, not knowing the history of the predecessor roads.

If the gentleman who owns the spike will take my advice and join the Mexlist Yahoo! Group, he will find all the expertise he needs on the history of Mexican railroads among that group. John Kirchner, the co-author of "Southern Pacific of Mexico" is one such member.

In addition to history, the Mexlist members can provide up-to-date info on all the railway museums in Mexico. One only has to ask.

Jim Tatum.

Jim

I obviously need to pull this thing back out and get the info straight. Please understand the conditions I recieved this by, I took everything home in a box, next morning it went to my safe deposit, I did not write any info down or photograph it, that was 5 years ago. I've asked a few RR preservationist over the years what I should do with this, no one had an answer. I stumbled across this forum last week and thought it might be a good place to ask. I'm in Nevada right now, will not be back to Tx till late December.

Kristin