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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:30 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
On Friday, January 18th, 2019, 11th Post on Page #38, Rainier Rails wrote:
As discussed in the "Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States" group on Facebook, these 2 cars are not the Plan #3585A 10S-1DR-2C sleepers Lake Alexander (Lot #4817, 1924, North Coast Limited, to SAL #1251) and Lake Borgne (Lot #4996, 1926, Sunset Limited, to SAL #1250), but rather are:

273. Cameron Pass (Lot #6334, Plan #3979A, 1930, 8S-1DR-2C, C&NW)--sold to ACL (1948) to MofW #65310 (1962) to SCL #765310 to SBD to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987)

274. Vassar College (Lot #4527, Plan #4042, 1917/34, 10S-2DB-1C, ex-Plan #2585D 10S-1DR-2C Moffett, UP, rebuilt for Havana Special)--sold to ACL (1948) to MofW #65348 (1960) to SCL #765348 to SBD to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987)

The thread in the FB group also brought up that this donation/acquisition from CSX also included a 3rd unidentified ex-Pullman from the MofW department, so:

442. Unknown Pullman in MofW service as a "pie car" to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987), used as a party car
On Wednesday, April 10th, 2019, 9th Post on Page #39, Rainier Rails wrote:
As posted in the GCRM equipment sale thread the museum lists this 3rd car as the:

442. Swarthmore College (Lot #4527, Plan #4042, 1917/34, 10S-2DB-1C, ex-Plan #2585D 10S-1DR-2C Mohawk, NYC, rebuilt for Havana Special)--sold to ACL (1948) to MofW #653xx (1960) to SCL #7653xx to SBD to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987)
On Tuesday, April 23rd, 2019, 14th Post on Page #39, Rainier Rails wrote:
As discussed in the Surviving Passenger Cars in the U.S. group on Facebook, there is still some question as to whether or not this is the correct ID for this car, but it is for now the most likely ID. Determining the car's ACL/SCL/SBD MofW number and checking that against records would be the final word.
Update: this is indeed the Swarthmore College. As posted by Jacob Carey back in May of last year in the Surviving Passenger Cars in the U.S. group on Facebook, he did a physical inspection of all 3 of these cars at GCRM, and all 3 ID's as posited were confirmed to be correct. And, the Swarthmore College was ACL MofW #65380/SCL #765380.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:47 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
On Friday, October 1st, 2010, 8th Post on Page #2, Newriver400 wrote:
Glen Ayr was in Jacksonville (sold recently to AC&W in North Carolina)
On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 10th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:
28. Glen Ayr (Lot #6182, Plan #3523C, 1928, 6C-3DR, ACL)--sold to ACL (1948) to pvt. owner (Jacksonville) to AC&W
Additional Info:

This car was in the collection of the North Florida RY Museum before the sale to the AC&W. The museum's website still lists the car despite the sale to AC&W: http://www.nfrm.org/glen_ayr.htm and states that the car was donated by SBD to the NRHS North Florida Chapter in 1986.

There was some question last year in the Passenger Car List group on GroupsIO if the car was still at the museum. The most recent Google street view imagery shows the other equipment in the museum's collection, but the Glen Ayr isn't visible, so it would seem it has indeed left Jacksonville for NC.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:05 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

447. In November 2018 in the RR Passenger Car Photos group on Facebook, photos were posted showing a former BN sleeper still in MofW red stored on the McCloud RY, either a Plan #3973 10S-1DR-1C or a Plan #2585 10S-1DR-2C. Seeing as how all the Plan #3973A Chief-series cars sold to NP are accounted for (scrapped), I posited it was most likely 1 of the 2 Plan #2585/D/E cars sold to GN and used in MofW. It is also very unlikely it is 1 of the 2 Plan #3973A Lake-series cars sold to CB&Q, as both are listed as being scrapped as well. It was reported that the various cars in McCloud including this car are now owned by Midwest Pacific Rail Logistics.

The 2 sold to GN were:

Arvonia (Lot #4091, Plan #2585/D/E, 1913, Golden State Limited)--sold to GN #1015 (1948) later transferred to MofW department as #O-3455

Buccaneer (Lot #4351, Plan #2585C/D/E, 1915, Overland Route pool)--sold to GN #1016 (1948) later transferred to MofW department as #O-3415

Besides this GN-owned car, 2 other ex-Pullmans (rebuilt to head end cars) as previously discussed earlier in this thread are also in McCloud:

368. Pampanga (Lot #4503, Plan #2410F, 12S-1DR, 1917/42)--13S Tourist #1391--to SP&S RPO-baggage #46 (1947) to BN (1970) to planned museum, Bend, OR (unknown) to storage in McCloud, CA (unknown)

369. Sakana (Lot #4319, Plan #2410B, 12S-1DR, 1915/42)--13S Tourist #1431--to SP&S postal storage #57 (1947) to BN (1970) to planned museum, Bend, OR (unknown) to storage in McCloud, CA (unknown)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:17 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

448. Hawstone (Lot #4649, Plan #2416D, 1922, plr [26]-1DR, PRR)--to NC&StL 68 seat coach #733 (1941) to streamlined baggage-RPO (30') #1040 (1947) to private owner (unknown) to TVRM and stored (unknown)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:42 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

449. Indian River (Lot #4839, Plan #3415, 1924, bag-buf-club-smkr)--to CN coach #5349 (1942) resold to ACL business car #307 (c. 1947) to SCL #307 (1967) to SBD (1982) resold to Atlanta Chapter NRHS-Southeastern RY Museum as #307 Georgia on My Mind (1983) leased to New Georgia RR for a time, still in NGRR colors

Car at SERM in Duluth, GA, still in NGRR paint, 6/2/15: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4245132 (G Gerard photo)

Museum's history of the car, 6/2/15: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4245133 (G Gerard photo)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1857
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

450. Irene (Lot #4053, Plan #2669A/C*/A/T, 1912/43, plr [25]-1DR-obs, ex-Chrysanthemum, nee-Empire State, NYC)--Tourist #5807 (39 triple-deck beds for troop train service)--to MP MofW #X4067 (1950) to #X4767 (unknown) resold to Maury W. Loket (unknown) to Little Rock Chapter NRHS-Arkansas RR Club (unknown) to Bank of Fayetteville, Fayetteville, AR (unknown)

*Under Plan #2669C between April 1926 and March 1930, parlor seating was reduced to 24.

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume 1: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:17 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

451. San Mateo (Lot #4442, Plan #2521C, 1917, 10S-lng-obs, CB&Q)--to TP&W streamlined business car Prairie Marksman (1949) resold to Timothy Bentley-Richton Tie & Timber Co. #100 Richton, Richton, MS/Monroe, VA/Charlottesville, VA (unknown) now stored at an undisclosed location (unknown)

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume 1: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1857
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Survivor:

452. Unknown 12S-1DR sleeper used as part of a business along the former CB&Q in Parkville, MO. The business has since closed, based on what I can tell at this point, car is not in any immediate danger; I am currently waiting on a possible answer to this car's ID, will update in the future if said info becomes known.

As seen on 4/15/2009, the car has since been repainted yellow: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1568337 (Jeff Carlson photo)

Thread on Trainorders from 2011 (no info on the ID there either): https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2503121

Another TO thread from 2011, apparently the car was formerly part of the "Vassar Junction Restaurant"/"Vassar Playhouse" near Vassar, KS (but again, nothing on the car's ID): https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2495928

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:49 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Update:

On Wednesday, November 12th, 2014, 8th Post on Page #26, Rainier Rails wrote:
375. Chicago (Lot #4210, Plan #2492, 1914, pvt. car)--sold to NdeM (1934) transferred (when??) to Secretaría de Comunicaciones y Transportes (SCT) #103 sold (when??) to Silver Creek International #103. Most of the SCI-owned cars, including the NYC Sunrise Brook, WP Silver Planet, the 2 AT&SF Blue sleepers, the ACL County sleeper, and the SAL 10-6 sleeper are stored in San Luis Potosi. Does anyone know if the Chicago is in San Luis Potosi, or elsewhere? The car was listed for sale, so it might have changed hands by now.
As reported in the new "The Cars That Went to Mexico" update thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44628), the ex-Chicago was moved to a private ranch in 2017.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:07 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Additional Info:

On Monday, January 27th, 2014, 15th Post on Page #13, Rainier Rails wrote:
Mystery Cars:

Back on page #9:

On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 9th Post on Page #9, Rainier Rails wrote:
290. There is at least one heavyweight sleeper at the museum in Puebla, Mexico, but from the one photograph I found I can't make out the name--http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2668/3689817889_0ebd8c152f_o.jpg (Raul Harrison photo)--anyone know the history??
On Monday, January 27th, 2014, 3rd Post on Page #14, jmlaboda wrote:
I know this much... after checking all of my links to 8 Section sleeper cars I can say with certainty, based on the window pattern of this car, that it is a Plan 4090 8 Section - 1 Drawing Room - 3 Double Bedroom car
290. As reported in the new "The Cars That Went to Mexico" update thread (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44628), this is FNM #3575 Gerencia de Produccion, but still no info is known about this car's Pullman ID.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1857
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Additional Survivors:

As posted in the new "The Cars That Went to Mexico" update thread (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44628):

453. Adorea (Lot #4051, Plan #2668, plr [30]-1DR, 1912, LV, ex-Romola)--to C&O 84 seat coach #619 (1941) resold to NdeM as #4012 (unknown, 1950?) later rebuilt to business car #3546 (unknown) later resold to Silver Creek International, then stored in San Luis Potosi, resold and moved in 2017 to a private ranch along with the ex-Chicago posted above

454. Centavia (Lot #6205, Plan #3979A, 8S-1DR-2C, 1928, NYC)--to NYC #10972 (1948) to Edwards International (1957) to NdeM #MGRS-85 (1958) to #177 Lago De Chalco (1960) later resold to Science Park, Leon, Guanajuato (unknown)

455. Poplar Valley (Lot #4763, Plan #4084A, 6S-6DB, 1924/39, ex-Plan #3410 12S-1DR McDaniel, ACL/IC)--to NdeM #110 Buenos Aires (1961) later to Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla (unknown)

456. Unknown Plan #3979/A 8S-1DR-2C as NdeM business car #3582 El Hidrocalido at the Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla

457. Unknown Plan #3958/A 14S in Ciudad Mante, Tamaulipas

458. Unknown 12S-1DR at "La Estacion" north of the intersection of highways 57 and 110, west of San Luis de la Paz

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


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