Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:39 am

40. Maitland (Lot #4845, Plan #3410/A, 1925, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to CNO&TP #3510 (1948) to TVRM (1965)

TVRM has received $200,000 in Federal grant monies for restoration work on the 12-1 Maitland:

https://www.facebook.com/tvrail/posts/pfbid0DKBmVq4KqVp7VZwM7azcLu14nphLtFwGJqW2PazcLqi4cS9wiCaMpA3Gg4jejWpjl

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:12 am

On Tuesday, May 7th, 2019, 4th Post on Page #40, Rainier Rails wrote:

98. Helena Modjeska (Lot #6038, Plan #3957A/D/A/E, 1/27, 26 seat-1DR, DL&W) to WAB (12/31/45), platform enclosed and renamed City of Lafayette (with 37? seats) in 4/54 (Plan #3957J), to N&W #700 Lafayette, sold at unknown date to Clinchfield RR #114 White Oak, to SBD #114 Blue Ridge, to CSX, resold at unknown date to New Georgia RR #114 Blue Ridge, resold 1996 to Fernandina Beach, FL Chamber of Commerce as SBD Fernandina (previously incorrectly listed as Ferdinand), resold 2001 to Greg Dodd, resold at unknown date to NOPB as City of New Orleans, then later (circa 2008) rebuilt by P. Messina to chair-parlor New Orleans, returned to open platform.

99. Queen Anne (Lot #4862, Plan #3957/C/G/H, 5/25, 26 seat-1DR, Black Diamond) to WAB (12/31/45), platform enclosed and renamed City of Peru (with 27? seats) in 12/56 (Plan #3957L), to N&W?, sold at unknown date to Nugent Bros. Roofing Co., resold at unknown date to Danville Industries, resold at unknown date to Smoky Hill RHS, later to storage at Comet Industries (exact ownership at this time unknown), resold circa 2008 to NOPB, plans were to have P. Messina rebuild it to a sleeper, plans cancelled with the shakeup in NOPB management and questions over millions spent on the other 2.

OK, I was remembering correctly, had seen something regarding the current status of 2 of the 3 ex-WAB NOPB cars (besides the nee-Embassy mentioned the other day).

Both the nee-Helena Modjeska/WAB City of Lafayette/NOPB City of New Orleans and nee-Queen Anne/WAB City of Peru are listed for sale on Ozark Mountain:

Helena Modjeska: https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=3261&category=Passenger%20Equipment

Queen Anne: https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=2502&category=Passenger%20Equipment

(Note that in the listings that the dates of manufacture are flipped, the Helena Modjeska is listed as 1925 instead of the correct 1/1927, and Queen Anne as 1927 instead of the correct 5/1925)

There are several other Pullmans currently in the Ozark sale listings which have been covered in this thread:

274. Vassar College (Lot #4527, Plan #4042, 1917/34, 10S-2DB-1C, ex-Plan #2585D 10S-1DR-2C Moffett, UP, rebuilt for Havana Special)--sold to ACL (1948) to MofW #65348 (1960) to SCL #765348 to SBD to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987): https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=1852&category=Passenger%20Equipment

331. Lake Crystal (Lot #4725, Plan #3585/G, 10S-2C-1DR, Sunset Limited)--sold to UP (1948) to Stuhr Museum (1965): https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=3239&category=Passenger%20Equipment

442. Swarthmore College (Lot #4527, Plan #4042, 1917/34, 10S-2DB-1C, ex-Plan #2585D 10S-1DR-2C Mohawk, NYC, rebuilt for Havana Special)--sold to ACL (1948) to MofW #65380 (1960) to SCL #765380 to SBD to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987): https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=1848&category=Passenger%20Equipment

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:19 am

Car Identified:

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021, 2nd Post on Page #42, Rainier Rails wrote:

Another Mystery Survivor:

461. In May 2020 a Plan #2410 12S-1DR was listed for sale on Ozark Mountain, simply identified as a coach named Eagle, built circa 1920 for the CB&Q. Pictures on the Ozark website clearly show that it is indeed a 12-1, and that all original interior section partitions were removed and replaced with coach seating. The CB&Q did not acquire any 12-1's named Eagle at the 12/31/1948 divestiture, nor was there ever an all-steel 12-1 simply named Eagle in the Pullman fleet, so the actual name of this car remains unknown.

https://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/news/2020/05/11/heavyweight-coach-eagle/

While perusing through closed/sold listings at Ozark Mountain, came across this car again, this time with the original Pullman name as the listing header instead of the later name Eagle:

461. Phanton (Lot #4590, Plan #2410F, 1920/41, 12S-1DR, AT&SF)--Tourist #1620 (13S) (1941)--sold to CB&Q (1947) to MofW #251150 (12/12/52) to BN MofW #968405 (7/1981) no retirement date listed, sold at unknown date (1980's?) to unknown party and modified to coach as Eagle, listed for sale on Ozark Mountain 5/2020, now shown as sold

Current version of the closed listing on Ozark Mountain: https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=2122&status=sold&category=Passenger%20Equipment

(The earlier link of the 2020 version of the listing no longer works due to a change in the Ozark website layout.)

Any info on who acquired this car from BN and where it is headed now would be greatly appreciated.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. "Burlington Passenger Car Roster: 1869-1930's" by William L. Glick (Quincy House, 1987)

5. BN MofW Equipment Registers, #967000-#968999 on the NPRHA website: http://research.nprha.org/Equipment/Numerical%20Registers/Non-NP/BN%20Maintenance%20of%20Way%20Equipment%20-%20967000%20-%20968999%20-%20Car%20Register%20Sheets.pdf

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:46 am

Update/Question Answered:

On Sunday, January 28th, 2018, 10th Post on Page #34, VinylRailfan wrote:

-Another car at a restaurant in Houston, TX. It is currently painted as C&NW 300915, which is a MoW number, however I was unable to find info regarding C&NW MoW cars and former histories behind them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/luna715/8468056975/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/luna715/8469156914/in/photostream/ (Both photos luna715)

On Sunday, January 28th, 2018, 12th Post on Page #34, jmlaboda wrote:

Pullman Plan 2412B 16 Section sleeper INTREPID to TC 4150 (8/35) sold to C&NW 9/53, to X300915. From the book, THE COMPLETE ROSTER OF HEAVYWEIGHT PULLMAN CARS, Wayner Publications.

On Thursday, November 15th, 2018, 2nd Post on Page #36, Rainier Rails wrote:

424. Intrepid (Lot #4150, Plan #Plan #2412B/U, 1913/35, LS&MS)--Tourist #4150 sold to C&NW (1953) as MofW #X-300915 sold (unknown date) to Railroad Crossing BBQ & Catering (Houston)

On Friday, November 16th, 2018, 14th Post on Page #36, Txhighballer wrote:

The BBQ restaurant where the "Intrepid" is located has just closed. Also there is a former SP bay window caboose. The cars sit literally five feet from the former SP line to Hearne.

On Friday, April 29th, 2022, 1st Post on Page #48, TheAnimeRailfan wrote:

Outta curiousity is Intrepid still there? If so, it may be one of two "unaltered" 16 sections left in existence (I say "Unaltered" because usually 16 sections get full rebuilds. This one may retain its mostly correct interior of at least 16 sections. The other being "Monteith" at the Meridian RR Museum.

On Friday, April 29th, 2022, 2nd Post on Page #48, PMC wrote:

If you look at the address I found online for the old BBQ place on street view there is a lightweight baggage car there still but nothing else: 14715 Hempstead Highway, Houston TX 77040
This review shows some photos of the heavyweight car, apparently in C&NW colors but with a GN herald on it, looks like it was tubed to be used as a dining room: https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/texas/train-themed-restaurant-tx/

Again, perusing the Ozark Mountain listings is answering some questions. There is a closed/sold listing for the Intrepid, so it would seem likely that this car was moved off of the property following the restaurant's closure and subsequent said sale listing, not scrapped in situ as I had been concerned might've happened.

https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=1628&status=sold&category=Passenger%20Equipment

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:50 am

Update:

On Friday, January 18th, 2019, 11th Post on Page #38, Rainier Rails wrote:

273. Cameron Pass (Lot #6334, Plan #3979A, 1930, 8S-1DR-2C, C&NW)--sold to ACL (1948) to MofW #65310 (1962) to SCL #765310 to SBD to CSX to Gold Coast RR Museum (circa 1987)

More from the Ozark Mountain closed listings, the 3rd sleeper that Gold Coast had placed on the market, Cameron Pass, is now listed on Ozark as having been sold: https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=1851&status=sold&category=Passenger%20Equipment

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:32 am

More Info:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 11th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:

75. Cromwell (Lot #4076, Plan #2410, 1912/42, 12S-1DR, GN)--Tourist #2427 sold to GN #2427 (1956) to SP&S #2427 to pvt. owner, located in Willamette Valley

On Sunday, September 27th, 2015, 14th Post on Page #31, BigBoy 4023 wrote:

What became of the Pullman car Cromwell that SP&S 700 pulled as crew car in the early 1990's? I know the old NP baggage car survived for a while. But the Cromwell I have never found any information on it's current status?

On Sunday, September 27th, 2015, 15th Post on Page #31, jmlaboda wrote:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1702571

On Sunday, September 27th, 2015, 1st Post on Page #32, Rainier Rails wrote:

13 section tourist car #2427, formerly the 12S-1DR Cromwell, was sold to GN in April 1956 and used by the MofW department as #O-3167, and is line item #75 in this thread. Does anyone know when the Pacific RR Preservation Association acquired this car from (presumably) BN, or when it was deaccessioned to its current unknown owner? Or was it never actually owned by PRPA? Thanks in advance.

On Sunday, September 27th, 2015, 2nd Post on Page #32, BigBoy 4023 wrote:

Thanks for the picture. I had been informed by a former member of the PRPA that Cromwell was sold and scrapped. Well so much for that source of information.

More info gleaned from both BN equipment registers and a personal inspection of said car in October of last year.

On the trucks, there is a repacking date stenciled for the plain rollers, done by the PRPA on xx/23/1993. It would seem that it indeed was a PRPA-owned car as discussed earlier in this thread (along with the ex-SP&S baggage-dynamo parked next to it, which has a repacking date of 08/xx/1989, also stenciled PRPA).

The BN equipment register shows:

From GN #O-3167 to BN #968404 in 4/1981, and listed as to "account 741" in 4/1985, authorization #85-494.

Account 741 (usually as "a/c 741") seems to be a common disposition code for many pieces of rolling stock (not just former passenger stock, but also freight) that later was in predecessor/BN MofW usage.

I am currently slowly sifting through the BN equipment registers on the NPRHA site, cross-referencing for known former Pullmans that ended up in MofW service that are still unaccounted for. If anyone has dispositions beyond the "a/c 741" (or other) dates listed for any cars that come up in this thread, that info would be much appreciated.

Pictures:

4 views of the Cromwell from said visual inspection, on 10/11/21: http://rainier_rails.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=1337361

Photos were also taken of the adjacent ex-SP&S #91 (4 views): http://rainier_rails.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=325130

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. BN MofW Equipment Registers, #967000-#968999 on the NPRHA website: http://research.nprha.org/Equipment/Numerical%20Registers/Non-NP/BN%20Maintenance%20of%20Way%20Equipment%20-%20967000%20-%20968999%20-%20Car%20Register%20Sheets.pdf

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:15 am

Updates:

196. Fort Andrews (Lot #4592, Plan #2585D, 1920, 10S-2C-1DR, Panama Limited)--to C&NW (1948) to coach #304 (1954) later resold to Fremont & Elkhorn Valley RR (FEVR) #1102 (198?) donated to Nebraska RR Museum following end of FEVR operations (2015) but not moved to Nebraska City, NE, instead remained stored at Fremont, NE, now resold to an unknown/private owner(s) in Davis, OK

197. Lake Bluff (Lot #4728, Plan #3585, 1923, 10S-2C-1DR, C&NW)--to C&NW (1948) to MofW #301002 (1963) later resold to Fremont & Elkhorn Valley RR (FEVR) #1101 (198?) donated to Nebraska RR Museum following end of FEVR operations (2015) but not moved to Nebraska City, NE, instead remained stored at Fremont, NE, now resold to an unknown/private owner(s) in Davis, OK

Both of these cars, like the recently-discussed UP Centennial #6925 and CB&Q heavyweight baggage #1554, were caught up in the conflict between the Nebraska RR Museum and the municipality of Nebraska City. As a result, several various pieces of equipment that NRM had acquired from the FEVR have been sold.

https://railfan.com/struggling-nebraska-museum-sells-up-centennial/

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:47 pm

Update:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 11th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:

95. Cordelia (Lot #4801, Plan #3416, 1924, 1DR-parlor [28 seats], B&O)--sold to GN as parlor #1083 (1938) to coach #1083 (1942) to parlor #1083 (1945) to streamlined buf-lng-parlor-obs #1083 Twin Cities for the Gopher/Badger (1952) to BN #968084 and declared surplus/stored to track geometry car #B9 (1974) to BNSF #80 (1st) (1995) to storage at Topeka--see here: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35426

Decided to make some inquiries about this car, as nothing had been heard/seen of it in quite some time. Reportedly it was scrapped sometime after the latest photos were taken of the car in storage at Topeka at the end of October 2007.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:05 pm

Mystery Solved:

On Thursday, January 16th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #10, Rainier Rails wrote:

253. Templeton (Lot #3801, Plan #2412T, 1910/40, 14S, PRR)--Tourist #4286 sold to GN and converted to coach #671 (1947) to MofW kitchen-diner-bunk #O3190 to business in Dunsmuir, CA--does anybody know where in Dunsmuir the Templeton is located, and what the business is??--see here: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5286/5304286597_2205452b82_o.jpg (Richard May photo) (click once to enlarge)

On Thursday, January 16th, 2014, 4th Post on Page #11, RDGRAILFAN wrote:

the car may be at this location:
Railroad Park Resort,
100 Railroad Park Road, Dunsmuir, CA 96025
I did a Google street view and wandered around hotel, I "think" i can see this car off in the distance behind the office with what appears to be another passenger car.

On Thursday, January 16th, 2014, 5th Post on Page #11, Rainier Rails wrote:

RDG Railfan--

I too was thinking that the Templeton might be located at the Railroad Park Resort. However, looking at the car via Street View (I didn't notice yesterday that it was available up that road), I don't think that it's the same car--something about the windows doesn't seem quite right. I haven't been able to locate any decent photos taken of the car at the resort, so I can't get a positive/negative match between the resort car and the Templeton.

On Thursday, October 21st, 2021, 7th Post on Page #43, Rainier Rails wrote:

Another Mystery Survivor:

As posted on this forum by Mike Pannell in January 2018: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41592

473. Plan #2410 12S-1DR to unknown to "Great Northern Subs & Espresso" (location unknown?) (19??) later to storage at undisclosed/unknown location somewhere in Washington State (19??)

Given the name of the business and this car's location, as well as information posted at the time, it does seem most likely that this car went to GN, but no further into including any/all later MofW numbers were included.

Regarding the same car, in the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook, Mike also mentioned that he believes that this car (and the ex-CB&Q or ex-NP wood coach behind it) are both for sale.

Correction: additional info from the above same Facebook group indicates that the green-painted wood coach is actually ex-SP&S #214.

It turns out that the car that was reportedly in Dunsmuir wasn't in Dunsmuir at all, nor was it the Templeton.

An inquiry about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group received a response from Tom Madden, who indicated that the photo I had linked to ID'ing the location as Dunsmuir was actually taken in Bellingham, WA, and that the car in question was not lettered as GN #O-3190, but as #O-3195, which makes it:

253. Lothario (Lot #4565, Plan #2410F, 1920/42, 12S-1DR)--13S Tourist #2400 (1942)--to GN MofW #O-3195 (1948) resold at unknown date to Great Northern Subs & Espresso, Bellingham, WA, car listed for sale

So, this also makes it the same car that was discussed here as being listed for sale along with SP&S #214.

Therefore, line item #473 is voided, as we have a double entry.

Additional follow-up, I looked again at the street view for the "Railroad Park Resort" on the south side of Dunsmuir, and one of the cars there is clearly an ex-SP "Harriman"-type coach (and, which is painted in a similar tone of green as the Lothario once was, which I think may have led to the confusion on the photographer's part as to the location of the initial photo [as posted here back in 2014]); the other car appears to be a combine of some sort.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:18 pm

Mystery Solved:

On Wednesday, January 22nd, 2014, 13th Post on Page #12, Rainier Rails wrote:

Mystery Cars:

271. PC #27042--according to Jerry LaBoda's website, this is a Plan #3989 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs--does anybody know the history of this car??--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3156056 (William Wilson photo)

On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 12th Post on Page #9, Rainier Rails wrote:

I wonder...

Besides SOU #2523 Glen Summit, Glen Saddell (still pending), PRR #8836 John Greenleaf Whittier, and Palm Lane (on long term lease from CNY Chapter), are there any additional heavyweight sleepers that have been acquired by Iowa Pacific/SLRG, either already listed as a survivor in this thread or otherwise??

On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 14th Post on Page #9, jmlaboda wrote:

This is from the roster presented in the Trains magazine article, June 2013. A couple of the names don't show up in Tom Madden's Pullman Car Construction Records...

SLRG 9169 Euopolis Not its Pullman name
SLRG 9170 University Club
SLRG 9180 Country Club Not its Pullman name???

On Sunday, January 12th, 2014, 15th Post on Page #9, Rainier Rails wrote:

Thanks, Jerry, for the info on Iowa Pacific's heavyweight sleeper acquisitions!

231. University Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989A, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8629 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9170 (201?)

232. Eupolis [sic]* (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921, 12S-1DR-1C, PRR)--sold to PRR #8706 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9169 (201?)

*Looks like somewhere along the way an "o" got added to the spelling.

233. Anthracite Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989U, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR, ex-Country Club)--sold to PRR #8620 (1948) to unknown to SLRG #9180 (201?)

On Tuesday, November 25th, 2014, 6th Post on Page #27, Rainier Rails wrote:

Using the Internet Archive, I found a cached version of the Ozark Mountain Railcar sale page of the Country Club/Anthracite Club, cached on 2/25/2009: http://web.archive.org/web/20090225075205/http://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/country_club.htm

I didn't see any evidence that the University Club or Eupolis were listed for sale on OMR, so at this point in time I'm not sure if Iowa Pacific acquired all 3 from the same owner. Can anyone provide more information? Thanks in advance!

An inquiry in the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook with the same photo from 2012 of the PC #27042 resulted in answers from Jacob Carey and Charlie Poling, ID'ing it as the University Club (note the 2nd heavyweight sleeper to the right in the photo, which was also ID'ed, as the Eupolis).

So now it is known where both these cars were/are before they were acquired by IPH. With the subsequent bankruptcy, I have no clue if these cars even left Buffalo for Alamosa (or other IPH location[s]), or what their current status/location now is.

Also as a result, line item #271 is now voided, as we have yet another double entry.

231. University Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989A, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8629 (1948) to MofW #492387 (1958) to PC #27042 (1968) later sold at unknown date to unknown/private party and stored in Buffalo, later resold to SLRG #9170 (201?)

232. Eupolis (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921, 12S-1C-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8706 (1948) to MofW #493658 (1960) to PC (1968) later sold at unknown date to unknown/private party and stored in Buffalo, later resold to SLRG #9169 (201?)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:12 am

Car Identified:

On Saturday, March 29th, 2014, 10th Post on Page #16, Rainier Rails wrote:

Another thread (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36414) has turned up another survivor in Savannah, GA.

The car remains unidentified at this time.

303. 8S-1DR-2C painted as CofG #5341 in Savannah.

Posted an inquiry about this car in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, and Tom Madden replied (based on the ACL-type roof venting/profile modifications) that it is most likely the...

303. Centolio (Lot #6205, Plan #3979A, 1928, 8S-2C-1DR, C&EI)--to ACL (1948) retired (1964) later moved to present location in Savannah during the Great Savannah Exposition years, painted as CofG #5341 (1984-1990)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:59 am

Update:

231. University Club and 232. Eupolis

According to follow-up conversation in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, both these cars are still in storage in Buffalo where they were in 2012.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:10 am

On Friday, October 22nd, 2021, 13th Post on Page #44, Rainier Rails wrote:

More Potential Survivors:

These cars all come from Herman Page's Pullman list of July 1999. None have been discussed before in this thread. The info is now 22 years old, but if anyone has info on if any of these cars are still extant today, either at the locations listed from back then or elsewhere, that would be most appreciated! (Same goes on if any scrapping dates are known for now-gone cars in the below listing.)

Manufacturers' Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989A/U, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8624 (1948) to MofW #492389 (1957) later resold to Ron Jedlicka and located at Buckeye Steel Car, Columbus, OH (19??)

On Friday, October 29th, 2021, 8th Post on Page #45, Rainier Rails wrote:

I inquired about these cars in the Surviving Passenger Cars group as well, and someone replied that the Manufacturers' Club had been located for some time in Newark, OH, back around the same timeframe as Page's report of the car being in Columbus. I did some searching, and I had been thinking that perhaps the location given for the car in Columbus, Buckeye Steel Car, had been a scrapping outfit, but it turns out that it was instead a casting foundry, later Columbus Castings, and now closed in the last several years.

This car came up in discussion again in the Surviving Passenger Cars group, during follow-up conversation to the aforementioned University Club and other extant Plan #3989 cars.

Apparently this car was at one time owned by a Paul Allen (Toledo, OH), located in Marion, then moved to Toledo, and at some later point after being stored at Buckeye Steel/Columbus Castings in Columbus, it reportedly may have been moved to the Hocking Valley Scenic. Does anyone have info on whether or not this car was indeed moved to the HVSR, and if so, is it still on the property there, or has it moved yet again? If it didn't move to the HVSR at any point, any other leads would also be welcome.

Source:

1. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:25 am

Update:

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021, 14th Post on Page #41, Rainier Rails wrote:

Update:

15. Dover Fort (Lot #4805, Plan #4015C, 1924/34, 6DB-buf-lng, NYC, ex-Ligonier)--sold to NYC #10754 (1948) to Pullman (1958) sold to Ohio Power Company (1967) to Muskingum Electric, Prentice Station, Cumberland, OH (19??) to storage on HVSR, Logan, OH (19??) intended sale to Iowa Pacific (201?) IPH sale fell through, car still located in Logan/East Logan

216. Boston (Lot #4211, Plan #2502A, 1914, pvt. car)--sold to NP #6 (12/22/41) to Jefferson River (2/29/56) sold to William Warren Nugent and Arthur E. Pew III as Going Nowhere & Back RY (GNW&B) Rising Gorge (4/2/66) resold to L.V. "Rocky" Rockafellow Alexauken (circa 1970) located in Stockton, NJ next to the Chenango (ex-Herald Square) (line item #262) owned by Edward J. Joscelyn, moved to Ringoes, NJ, in 1974, sold to Don Lee (circa 1980) who worked for the Indiana & Ohio RY, hence the move to Ohio, sold to unknown/private owner (1995) and then located/stored on the HVSR at Logan/East Logan

It was reported in the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook in July of last year that the HVSR was looking to either sell or scrap these 2 cars; I have not seen/received any updates on their status since that initial news was posted.

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021, 15th Post on Page #41, Rainier Rails wrote:

But, it is also worth noting that supposedly the Boston was almost certainly headed for scrapping, while at least at that time there was consideration/plans of saving the Dover Fort, but again, that's all the info I have.

While searching for any photos of the Manufacturers' Club that was reported to be possibly in storage on the HVSR, I did come across some recent views of the Dover Fort, confirming that the car was indeed still extant, at least as of last month.

2 below views taken by Nicholas Katz in Nelsonville, OH, on 11/05/22:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5871687

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5871810

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

Received a correction that the Manufacturers' Club was never owned by Paul and Brian Allan. They did however own the...

269. Portageville (Lot #4762, Plan #3410, 1924, 12S-1DR, PRR)--to PRR #8908 (1948) to MofW #492027 (1962) to Paul Allan (unknown date) to private owner-Toledo, Lake Erie & Western (unknown date) stored, Grand Rapids, OH

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Surviving Passenger Cars in the United States group on Facebook

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

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