Ron Ziel and I were good friends, back in the mid-1960's and into the early 70's. A few things about NWS&W: They had strings of CB&Q Mikes, Northerns, and 2-10-4's for which CB&Q had a unique designation. Ron told me, Nelson Blount went out to pick up one of the "Texas" locos, but they had all been heavily cut into when he arrived. They also scrapped Nickel Plate Berkshires and the last of GTW steam. "Twilight of Steam" is a whole education in itself, and everyone interested in preservation needs to read it.

I gather NWS&W is now long gone. In his book, you see clouds of asbestos lagging raining down on the torch men. Does any part of the scrap yard remain, or has it been treated as a Superfund site? One can only imagine what remains buried out there.

Twilight has always been a favorite from an early age, very sad in some respects but very interesting.

As far as the company goes, fortunes have gone up and down but looks like it's still there in some form or another. Now known as Sterling Steel Company, LLC.

Address on Google:

101, Ave K, Sterling, IL 61081

Wonder what remains as well, and also if they have some need old freight cars used for inter-plant service.

Joshua

PS Look west of there- Sterling Rail Services. Might be some neat stock there too.

I checked it out on Google Earth today. Ziel's book comes to life, except...no steam!

NWS&W used to use old GTW Coffin style tenders for a while after the steam era as giant Gondolas with their water tank portion cut out. A lot of iconic steam was scrapped there such as GTW 6322 which had an extremely poorly timed air compressor explosion while on an excursion due to deferred maintenance. She was 1 of 2 locomotives that pulled the last regularly scheduled passenger train hauled by steam in the United States and was a big fan favorite so much so that the Superintendent of the GTW had requested the brass number plate off of the 6322 and whistle of the other GTW steam locomotive 6319 which now resides at Durand MI. As for the Texas locomotives the CB&Q had it's a shame they were too far gone for Nelson Blount to pick them up they were amazing looking steamers IMO. As stated earlier in the thread NSW&W utilized the 2-10-4 Boilers in the warehouses with an automatic injector until one of the Injectors failed and caused a crown sheet failure leading to the explosion. With the NYC mohawk trucks found in the factory that AOS acquired recently it makes me think that there's still an NYC Hudson hiding out there in a basement or critical pieces of one somewhere out there. While Pearlman made sure not one was sold to preservation he wasn't a stickler to sell a steam locomotive to another railway for use on regular freight or to be used in some completely different way Eg: NYC 3001.

The Bessemer & Lake Erie used the design of the CB&Q 2-10-4's when having their locomotives built. So, surviving B&LE #643 is a close copy of the Q's Texas types as they were originally built.

Les

Greetings:
If you want to find out who owns former GTW #8305, find out who is paying the rent on the track it is stored on (hint: it is not Illinois Railway Museum).
J.David

As one of the people whose life was changed by early exposure to "The Twilight of Steam Locomotives," it was an eerie experience to visit the scene of the CB&Q 2-10-4 photo essay, on a failed expedition to retrieve a 6-axle tender for use as an auxiliary behind PM 1225. (The boys in the yard had already started cutting it up when we arrived.) It was even weirder to learn that one of the 2-10-4 boilers had blown up, after we'd climbed into one of their cabs while it was under steam.

For users of GoogleMaps, the locomotives were cut up in the big blank space west of the mill buildings. The tracks and overhead craneway in the Ziel photos seem to have been removed, but were there in 1980.

Aarne H. Frobom

I have always marveled at how something that large can be out in the open with nobody seemingly having a clue who owns it. Possession being 9/10 of the law, I'd assume it was whoever owned the land, but we all know that is often not the case.
I used to know a guy who spent the final summer they ran steam there, documenting the operation with some great photos. I used to run into him at the Susquehanna bridge at Havre De Grace, MD, where he'd show me his excellent photos from back then, but I guess he never did anything with them and I've long ago forgotten his name, darn it.
As I understand it, Lucius Beebe didn't like the book at all. Can't recall where I read that, though.
the local library had a copy which I checked out every time the 'bookmobile' came around. I bought a copy at the first RR collectible show I attended in my teens and have it to this day.
I've even gone looking for some of the locations and engines in that book, just to say I'd been there, as it had such an impact on me as a kid. I was born in 1969, so the book wasn't written that long before I existed.
A few years back, I found out where Ziel was living and I took a chance and wrote a letter telling him how much I loved the book and treasure his recording of the end of steam as he had.
Amazingly, I got a typed letter back (with hand corrections) from him, thanking me for writing! I still have that letter, too.

Looking at Facebook posts and exploration videos on YouTube people have asked the local industry that owns the land the 8305 is on if they could climb on it or take photos to which the owner or some employee just said “yeah go ahead” if that’s the case it would be rather stupid to let something someone is paying storage on to be climbed on and looted (many objects have been removed including the butterfly doors to the firebox since 2014) it’s like buying a storage locker but the owners of the lockers allow people to look inside it and play with whatever’s in there. I would assume this has something to do with an acquiescence law and legally belongs to the local grain mill. Michigan’s acquiescence law for property lines is 15 years until it becomes the land owners property as long as it has been acknowledged for the specified time and that deadline just borders the late plans to move the locomotive to Quincy. No clue if that apply’s to objects on the property though and as to who owns it we won’t know without a definitive answer. I doubt IRM has the answer given that the status that IRM supposedly gives is iffy such as the run of the mill rumors that “it’s too common” and “the frame is split and boiler needs work” while I don’t doubt some of these statements if IRM doesn’t own it then who are they to say what’s wrong or why they don’t move it if they don’t even own it? Honestly I think the best bet is emailing or calling the grain mill 8305 is on and seeing what they have to say.

The ex-GTW 0-8-0's were leaky and in tough shape even while shunting around the NWS&W property in 1963. Considering the condition of the yard track, I'll venture they spent plenty of time on the ground, too! Ron mentioned that while dragging the big locomotives around the pit, if a pony truck or trailing truck derailed, it was simply sliced off in place.

My memory of this detail remains - when the 0-8-0's were finally retired, I think there were eight of them, part of the agreement was they never be steamed again. They were only marginally maintained and at the absolute minimum of operating standards. Basically, they were kept in steam by cannibalizing/transplanting parts from one to another so those in the least bad shape could keep moving. Essential parts were sometime taken from the big locos on the scrap lines.

Just another thought from "Twilight of Steam's" spread on NWS&W, there were headlights and other "goodies" tossed onto the ground as a CB&Q O5b was torched. I find it difficult to believe all that stuff went into a gondola to be melted! Oh, in somebody's basement or garage.....!

Richard -

Considering that there were a LOT of 0-8-0's on the nations railroads through the steam era, not a lot of them were eventually preserved. And their great weight on drivers might preclude operation over museum lines. That is apparently why the one example (Illinois Central # 3525) that WAS put into service (in Georgia at Stone Mountain Scenic) was quickly set aside. That is not to say that none will ever run again. I think there is (was?) a plan to restore Florida East Coast # 253 to active service down in the Sunshine State. And I seem to recall that KRM once tossed about the idea of working on Louisville & Nashville # 2152 as a backup to their operational L&N Pacific.

As for the "never to be steamed again" note for the Northwestern Steel & Wire (ex-Grand Trunk Western) 0-8-0's, who would bother to try to enforce such an edict? The steel company itself is no longer in existence. And would IRM bother if an 0-8-0 it sold, take any action if an attempt was made to restore one to service?

Les

Les: 0-8-0's were famous for riding hard and pounding track. My reference to the GTW locos from NWS&W was pointed at them being in very rough shape when they went cold. I believe the point was to keep people from firing up haphazardly maintained, older, badly worn, steam locomotives and blowing themselves up. How well the edict could be enforced is out of my scope. Just about everyone on this board knows what the overall aftermath could spell.

Ron Ziel was a walking, talking railroad museum in the flesh. I remember asking him about some of the photos in "The twilight of steam locomotives". There is a photo of a man cutting a piston rod with a cutting torch. He said the man said to him "if you would like to cut this rod with the torch I will pass it over to you". He said "Mr I couldn't bear to do that to a steam locomotive". The other man said "I hate doing it as well". He claimed he picked up a headlight and number shield below the headlight for a keepsake (there is a photo in the book).

He told me Union Pacific loved the Big Boys so much that they didn't want anyone to see them getting cut up so they cut them up in the steam shop in the beginning (later they cut them up outside). He said they didn't allow any photos but he managed to shot a roll of film with out anyone noticing. I bought many of his prints of some rarer stuff including the Big Boy scrapping. He had a lot of great stuff but his prints were very pricey.

He said he owned a small tank engine. Does anyone know what ever happened to the steam locomotive.

[quote=
Just another thought from "Twilight of Steam's" spread on NWS&W, there were headlights and other "goodies" tossed onto the ground as a CB&Q O5b was torched. I find it difficult to believe all that stuff went into a gondola to be melted! Oh, in somebody's basement or garage.....![/quote]

I asked Ron about that and he said there was actually piles of headlights, whistles, builders plates, etc. in the yard where anyone could buy them. As you can imagine none of that stuff was treated with any care during removal so much of it was damaged especially the headlights when they were cut off. He said a friend of his had gathered a entire basement of nothing but headlights and whistles. His wife said "if you bring home one more....." well you know the story.

Ron purchased BEDT #12, a Porter 0-6-0 side tanker. For a long time it sat in the Jersey yards, but Ron got behind in paying the track rental. That locomotive as BEDT #16 were to become the "fleet" for his and George Foster's "Sag Harbor and Scuttle Hole" tourist railroad on Long Island. The right of way was to be the old Sag Harbor branch of the LIRR, long torn up. The projection never firmed up and BEDT #16 went to the Oyster Bay Rail Road museum, but was accidentally delivered to the Railroad Museum of Long Island, where it stands static today. #12 was eventually sold to a doctor or dentist and wound up in the collection of the Gold Coast Railroad Museum, in Florida. I am told it is very weathered and rusty, but I haven't yet seen it for myself.

NWS&W stands out in Twilight of Steam, as does the pictures of Big Boy 4015 being cut up. I similarly reflect on the huge line up of Clinchfield challengers. It's easy to think "Had I been there, I'd have saved one", but remember at that time (Ron took most of those images between 1961-1962) a Baby Ruth candy bar was a nickel, and a cold Coke in a bottle was ten cents. An average man's salary was $8,500/yr. Scrap value on a LIRR G5s ten-wheeler was $5,000. Ron did us all a service in capturing the actual twilight of steam locomotives.