The two-bay Erie hopper in question is a former COVERED hopper, or at least built along similar lines, and has "funnel-shaped" hoppers as opposed to the simple triangular hoppers of coal cars.

I don't have a photo handy, but one look at said car would make any "gatekeeper" of this list say ". . . . Never mi-i-i-i-nd!!"

UPDATE: Here's a photo of a model of what appears to be the same class of car in question. See Model Railroader, August 1975, for an article.

Thanks, Sandy! Definitely gets a pass,n

The list seems to have a few errors and omissions. Many of these are quite understandable, but probably ought to be corrected. An unspoken criterion seems to be that the car should be of steel construction, but that doesn't appear in the subject heading. That means B&O iron "Pot" hoppers 23001 and 23002 at the B&O Museum in Baltimore should qualify, as well as PRR (PY&A) wooden hopper 1818 at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg.

The Museum in Strasburg also has PRR GL hopper car 33164.

It appears that all surviving WM twin hoppers are actually ballast cars. They originated as coal hoppers, but were significantly rebuilt as covered hoppers, then had their roofs removed for ballast service. As a result of these rebuildings, their original appearance as hopper cars has been lost.

The "B&O" hopper car at North Conway was never a B&O car. It resembles one, but I believe it actually originated on the L&NE.

The B&O Museum's online roster is confusingly inaccurate. They have an N-13 twin steel rib-side hopper with longitudinal doors, as well as an N-41 offset hopper that was converted into an icicle breaker. Two such N-41's came from the Museum from the B&P, but they scrapped one for reasons unknown to me. I don't know whether the remaining car is still configured as an icicle breaker. None of the B&O's many N-35's or variants was saved, and the Museum refused the donation of the last surviving W-2a offset quad.

Tom

(WM information edited for accuracy)

Tom -

Thanks for your note. This thread started in 2008, so there have been some changes over the years, usually not for the good. Let me address a couple of points that you made:

Being iron cars wouldn't keep the two B&O cars from the list, but from the photos I have seen of 23001 and 23002, I don't know if they had hopper car type bay doors or not. If they do, and there are two of them on each car, then they would be included. If not, then no.

The wood PY&A car HAS hopper type doors, but from the photo and info I have seen, is described as a gondola. Being a gon, would keep it off the list in my estimation. Perhaps others might think differently. Being wood would make no difference. I wish there were some of the thousands of composite hoppers (wood sides) that were built still with us. They would qualify.

Two bay hoppers later rebuilt for ballast service and losing their hopper type doors is a tough call. Early in this thread, there was a museum that had such a car (Northern Pacific) that they intended to convert back with new hopper car type doors, but I don't know if it was ever done. I think since it was built as a open top two bay hopper, it deserved inclusion, whether converted since or not. The WM cars probably should then be included also.

Les

I don't know much about the actual design of the B&O iron pot hoppers, but they are generally referred to as hopper cars and I'm pretty sure they discharge their lading through the bottom. That would seem to qualify them as hoppers.

Up to the turn of the 20th Century, when steel cars were first being introduced in the configuration we are accustomed to, coal and similar commodities were typically shipped in wooden gondolas and unloaded by hand shoveling or clamshell. Then some were built with drop doors in the floor, which made unloading more efficient. Then shorter and taller types were built with bottom doors, expressly for mineral service. That pretty much describes the PY&A car at Strasburg. I agree that defining cars of this kind can be a close call. PRR normally classified such cars as gondolas, and assigned G classifications to them. When true hopper doors became common on these cars, the G classes remained in effect, largely because of old thinking that still called them gondolas. When steel hoppers, such as the surviving Pressed Steel Car GL at Strasburg were delivered, it was becoming obvious that a new era had already dawned, and people began to accept the new terminology and call them hopper cars. Nevertheless, PRR continued to use the G designation for thousands of GLa, GLb, GLC, and other classes for many years. The experience on the PRR generally reflects the thinking on railroads all over the country at the time. Many old time railroaders didn't even bother to use the term "hopper car", and simply called them coal cars. The wooden PY&A car at Strasburg discharges through the bottom, through doors that are recognizable as hopper doors. The car was designed and built for mineral service, rather than general gondola type service. That makes it a hopper in my book, regardless of the material used to construct it.

Tom

Tom -

Interesting. Perhaps the original L&NE reporting marks and the road number of the car might be found on the underframe somewhere. Curious that the folks at North Conway would paint up the car for the B&O.

Les

Scott has already finished the restoration of PRR 220838 and it looks FABULOUS!

Les

M&H has a ex C&O two bay open top hopper as well.

George -

Thanks! I've seen photos of the three bay Chesapeake & Ohio hopper (#106362) on the Middletown & Hummelstown, but I didn't know that the railroad also had a two bay car.

Les

Way back in 2012 on page 3 of this thread, nictd1000 posted a link to a photo of a two bay Chesapeake & Ohio hopper car (road #130860) abandoned in Shoaf, Pennsylvania. I happened to look at that photo and saw that there were a couple of others ones posted, including this one:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2478133

What I had not realized at the time, is that this car has rounded ends! I would have to think that this has to be the only surviving two bay car with this type end. Two questions come to mind:

1. Photographer Curt Beal took these shots over 5 years ago and the car was in horrible shape back then. Does it still survive today?

2. Bad shape yes, but probably still restorable. If it does still exist, what could be done to save it?

Les

Photos of the Lehigh Valley shop by mfmalk show a 2 bay Lehigh hopper outside on a piece of track

http://www.losttracksoftime.com/p106787 ... 5#hc658985

Stuart -

Thanks for posting the photo of Lehigh Valley #15661.


Les

For the record, this car was moved earlier in 2016 to the Ironhorse Railroad Museum in Chisago City, Minnesota. Good to know that it will be preserved!

Les

I do not believe the Canadian Pacific 420880 has been mentioned yet, a 1941 product of NSC. This car was shown in 2014 at the Alberta 2005 Centennial Railway Museum of Beiseker, AB.

From what I read in the blogs below the railway museum may not have much life left in it, sounding much like the Pemberton NJ saga. Comments indicate general opinion is this museum project is abandoned, and the equipment may be available. The failed depot move ended with the structure burning in 2015.
http://www.bigdoer.com/14726/exploring-history/alberta-2005-centennial-railway-museum-whats-going-on/
http://www.bigdoer.com/18942/exploring-history/bassano-railway-station/
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/historic-railway-station-in-beiseker-damaged-by-fire-overnight

Thanks Olin! Info much appreciated.

Les