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| Buckeye Central Scenic auction results http://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24115 |
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| Author: | ebtrr [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Buckeye Central Scenic auction results |
Attended the Buckeye Central Scenic auction today. Was pretty disappointed in the sale. Outside the rail equipment most of the stuff being sold was household stuff and railroad knick-knacks. In many cases the auctioneer had to lump things into large lots to sell. I got there half hour before the start and got number 10. I don't think the numbers went over 30 so the turnout was light. As far as the rail equipment goes here is what I was able to record. As with most auctions it was difficult to follow: Plymouth switcher - sale declined ($1600 highest bid) offered as basically operable, but batteries dead - about 16 ton Davenport switcher - sale declined ($2500 highest bid) offered for sale as needing minor mechanical work - 25 ton Constitution coach - $200 sale was declined the first time around at a bid of $100 then sale repeated later. B&O REA baggage car - $300 Chessie caboose - $4200 Ore car - no interested parties Side dump car - sale declined (highest bid $300) Installed set of gates and flashers - $250 2 12' double sided oak station benches - $575 each The terms on the equipment was that they had to be removed from the property in their entirety by October 24th (1 1/2 weeks) that was apparently dictated by the landlord's eviction. the eviction apparently applied to the track only and not the station and storage grounds where they were more lenient on when items could be removed. The tie crane and brush cutter listed on the auction were not put up for auction nor was the burro crane also there. I noticed that the burro had roller bearings, not sure about the tie crane. The rest of their equipment (a caboose and a couple coaches) were pushed a short distance up the line. The dump car and two ore cars which had been on the south side of US 40 at my last visit were now stored somewhere up the line and were put up for auction without being present. The crossing over US 40 and the track on the south side of the road were both gone. The REA baggage car was unusual in that one entire end opened up to load large items. One attendee said he looked underneath and the side sills were nearly rotted away. It had been used as a workshop and supply storage. the contents, which might have been something I'd have bid on, were not offered separately. The Constitution had apparently be used as a snack bar and there were no internal fittings. There was a second ore car but they said that the ownership was in dispute so it would not be sold. One bidder said he tried to contact the landlord about purchasing the rails but they would not reply, so one could suspect that the sale of the rails to a pre-arranged buyer could be a motivation for the eviction. According to what I heard at the auction, the railroad plans to change its name and move to somewhere around Zanesville. Their NW-2 (?model?) was fired up and switching the auction equipment out front prior to bidding. After the sale it switched it around again (based on method of loading or dismantling I suppose.) One bidder said that it was a scrap dealer who bought one if the passenger cars but not sure which. I wish better fortunes for the BCSRR crew in their new home, wherever that may be. |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buckeye Central Scenic auction results |
I think the baggage car was built to haul stage props for traveling shows. At least that is the story I remember. So sad to see the railroad go, but as I said in an earlier post, it had a lot working against it. The crossing over Route 40 was pulled up shortly after I stopped volunteering there. The track used to be in to the Jedlicka property on the south side of the interstate, but when the school was built most of that was pulled up. This should be a wakeup call to everyone. Don't operate on someone else's land and think you'll be there for the long term! There was a live steam railroad built on the grounds of a Babcock & Wilcox plant. They were a happy group for decades until B&W sold the property and the new owners gave the group 30 days to vacate the property. So they had to haul everything off and find a new site. But instead of buying their own land they relocated to some property owned by some government agency. I guess some people never learn! Bottom line is OWN YOUR LAND! |
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| Author: | caboose9 [ Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buckeye Central Scenic auction results |
Who bought the caboose? |
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| Author: | ebtrr [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buckeye Central Scenic auction results |
Don't know who any of the bidders were. There were two or three bidding on the caboose. |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
The NE Ohio Live Steamers, the group you referred to, relocated to a park on the outskirts of Medina, OH, next to the former B&O CL&W subdivision (big railroad related content). My understanding is that they have a long-term commitment for the site from the park authority, and from what I saw there on a brief visit a couple of years ago with a member, have a really nice, usable track layout, suitable for big meets. I've been a member of the Baltimore live steam group for over 20 years, which has a dollar-a-year lease on 10 acres in Leakin Park (former B&O official Ross Winan's estate) in W. Baltimore. Nice facility. Biggest problems are vandalism from being in a bad part of town, and having to deal with the state amusement park inspectors (which they staved off as long as their patron Don Schaefer was a powerful presence in State Government), who insist the operation is an amusement ride, not a historic representation of railroading's past. (Necessary disclaimer: I do not speak for the group.) In a lot of ways there is a beneficial aspect to this, in that being subject to state regulation means that everything that operates for the public has been inspected and certified as safe - yearly hydro testing for steam locomotives, cars are road-worthy, etc. I guess that my take on the subject is that ANY type of preserved railroad operation is subject to being forced out of it's location, whether you own the land or not. Look at the NIMBY problems the New Hope and Ivyland has had in recent years. If the community you are in decides your operation doesn't fit in with their needs or desires, your days are probably numbered, unless you have leadership that is very politically savvy, connected, or both. Even small operations don't exist in a vacuum, and having good community relations is going to be essential. |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Private Land |
Owning your own land is the best option when possible. Unfortunately, for some groups that is not always possible. My group-Old Pueblo Trolley-has a rathar unique situation as we operate a street railway in a urban area. All of our trackage is "in street" which requires us to deal with the city officials. We have made a point to work with the city officials and the local citizens and merchants, the majority of whom support the street railway. We have a unique opportunity to contribute to the improvement of the city's transportation infrastructure, something that many other organizations cannot do. We are presently aiding the city in planning the modern streetcar system that was approved by voters nearly two years ago, providing technical expertise and positioning ourselves as a logical operator of that new system. Foreward thinking and positive relations with the community will make or break your operation. |
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| Author: | wesp [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
At National Capital Trolley Museum we've had 40 years of success as a tenant in the county park system. But they were clear from the beginning that we had to offer a public service through regular posted hours. The parks' governing board also has a say in approval of our planned development and we cannot junk the place up with carbodies and other equipment out in the open. The demand for public parkland is high. My sense is that if we had strayed too far from their expecatations they'd have been quick to call us back in line. It has been a good arrangement for us. Wesley |
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| Author: | dr dodge [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
when the city property is worth enough, it doesn't matter how well you got along, how you contributed, or how well liked you are and as for owning your property, with the latest supreme court decision regarding taking your property, and giving it to anyone who can claim significant economic development, thats a pipe dream, too We have a real problem in the US because new and bigger is better than historic. The natonal reg offers no protection. We have got to get some process in place to aid all small groups in the US (railroad and other) who are trying to save our culture and history. Vandals contribute to the "other side's" cause, because the community looks at the broken windows, spray paint, etc and says why can't that mess be cleaned up. If you wait long enough, they will help you clean up, and erase you right into the dumpster. Then the condos, casinos, and strip malls can rebuild your "mess" into something "ecomonically viable". we all could create a list a mile long, but ultimately, we still have no "teeth" to ensure our survival. Just wait until they make coal the enviro bad guy, and start the eco war. DR |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
Here in the SF Bay Area we just had one of those melt downs. The Golden Gate Railroad Museum lost theiirlease along with lots of other groups at the old Hunters Point Naval Shipyard. The City gave them 2 years to find something else. The GGRRM did move a lot of equipment to the PLA's Niles Canyon Railway. But they also gave away or sold a lot of their equipment. And I have not heard anything about a new site for the museum. And its been a couple of years. And the Niles Canyon Railway itself is on a short lease that could change with one county election! If you own it you will be able to stay there! Ted Miles |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
So I won't be seeing any SP steamers on Mythbusters anymore! Bummer! Dr Dodge, you should pay a bit more attention to that Supreme Court decision. What they erroneously ruled is that the Federal govt. has no authority in eminent domain matters and it remains up to each of the states to define ED for themselves. Many states have enacted restrictions on what constitutes a public purpose and thus have restricted ED greatly. A government agency can still take a property for a truly public use, but the days of taking your house to give it to a developer are on the way out in several states. Every one of us in the preservation movement should be deeply involved in this battle, because many of our facilities inhabit properties that private developers would just love to get their hands on. The sanctity of private property ownership in this country must be defended as it is the basis upon which this nation is founded. It is also a prerequisite for any preservation activities that purport to save historical objects and properties "forever". Pay a visit to the Castle Coalition website and see how the laws are written in your state. If your state has laws which protect property owners consider yourself lucky. If not, then you better get involved or someday you may find yourself auctioning off your equipment just as the Buckeye Central just did. As for museums like National Capital which are located on park property, beware! My brother in law lives in the Jaystone development right next to the museum. I see the continued development of the area and the increasing pressure on every square inch of real estate. I also see that the type of people living there aren't exactly the same ones that would enjoy the sights, smells and sounds of industry. One incident and poof, auction time! Owning your own land is the only way to go if you expect to be there for the long term. http://www.castlecoalition.org/ |
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| Author: | wesp [ Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
Stationary Steam is right. We have been told that if we were to pitch our original 1965-era proposal for use of parkland in today's environment today we'd be declined immediately. Our park system is almost 100 percent built out. As part of the planning for the relocated facilities, our neighbors on Jaystone were involved in selecting trees for the screen on our adjoining property lines. We also had to respond to concerns about noise and exterior lighting. Fortunately the position of the buildings on the site allows them to serve as an additional layer of screening with the primary interpretive activity taking place on the opposite side of the buildings from the neighbors on Jaystone and Cutstone. Our long-term concern is to assist the park department with identifying compatable uses for the remaining developable land in the park. Fortunately they quickly understood that grade crossings of the demonstration railway were not desirable. The master planning is still in the early stages, so time will tell. When planning for the new interstate highway was inevitable we quickly realized there were not many options for relocating a facility with our specialized needs. We were fortunate that there was enough open land within the park adjacent to our present location. Otherwise we'd be in the Relocation Club with other groups mentioned here. Wesley |
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| Author: | Jack A. Siffert [ Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
Owning your own property is great and by all means what you should do, Just remember it has it own sets of problems!! And costs that take away from the things you really would like to do with limited funds. Legal bills protecting it can add up quick. Although it's really hard for any one group to come and take it all, you'll spend as much or more fighting all the "little" encroachments, trespassing, stupid land owners that feel they have the right to show up one day and throw a crossing in over your land etc etc Than you would to fight the one "big one". |
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| Author: | Bob Kutella [ Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
I suppose it depends on where your organization is in its maturity. If you have half a dozen pieces of equipment collected, on wheels, and in date - you can always move to a different spot and rent, lease, or poach a siding. But if you have invested, - in grading, track, yards, wire, buildings, visitors center, plumbing, sewers, any sort of permanent facility - it is hard to move those and having title to your site is the only way that makes sense. Having infrastructure gives you credibility and makes you more viable for visitor interpretation, fund raising, grants - but of course comes with its own strings, obligations, codes, (neighbors?) etc. Bob Kutella |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
Williams Grove struggled with this issue for 25 years that I know of. Finally, last year they got the opportunity and bit the bullet borrowing two million dollars to buy the land they are on. That is a hard pill to swallow but it was the only means for the group to survive. The cost of buying land elsewhere was just as great and then they had to add the cost of moving. At least where they are the neighbors are use to the smoke and noise and the facilities are not near the neighbors for the most part. I thiink it had been determined there would not be enough money to move and rebuild the railroad, a signifigant producer of income for the group. Hopefully they will be able to pay off the note. It would be sad to lose such an old group. Even during the days when they were bankrupt TVRM continued to buy property adjacent to the shop and Grand Junction depot when it came available. If you own the surrounding property it will not be occupied by complaining nimbys. Other groups should look at this as often as possible. I have encouraged the A&R to do the same for years but so far with no success. John Bohon |
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| Author: | dr dodge [ Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Buying own land |
you are right the feds just let the state of CT evict those people on the river and give away their homes we have a few states trying to "act responsive" to their citizens but I can't help but wonder if everything will hold true as property values increase and available land decreases other citizens & groups in various states are "knee deep" in those same matters... hope and pray that sanity prevails |
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