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 Post subject: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:20 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Hammond, WI
I was just informed that Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant (former Milwaukee Terre Haute) has been officially abandoned at IRM by the Terre Haute, IN group that owned it. Rumor is that IRM is going to burn and scrap it as soon as possible. Can anyone at IRM confirm or deny this? Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:26 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:42 am
Posts: 404
Location: Haslett, Michigan USA
I have no idea what IRM's plans are, but if this is the car I'm thinking of, it's no loss. It knocked around Janesville, WI and Pontiac and Saginaw, MI, before behing hauled to IRM on a TTX flat. This was a very early steel sleeper, a 12-1 I think, converted around the early 1930's by the Milwaukee Road to a solarium lounge and named the Terre Haute. It had 10 or 12 rotating parlor chairs in the solarium and a dining area. Most of the forward two thirds of the interior was removed for conversion to a camp car, leaving a few parlor chairs and traces of the idiosyncratic wood interior paneling and furniture, which featured an odd square-block parquet pattern and indirect lighting. This car is a good exemple of how badly a heavyweight can deteriorate over 50 years with no care. It needs new roof, letterboard, pier panel, girder panel, sash, platform, doors, steps, buffers, underfloor gear and interior. Not a lot there to save.

- Aarne Frobom


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:44 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 658
Location: Union, IL
Boyd Owens wrote:
I was just informed that Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant (former Milwaukee Terre Haute) has been officially abandoned at IRM by the Terre Haute, IN group that owned it.


To my knowledge, this is basically true except for the word "officially." News to this effect has been posted on the IRM Yahoo group as well but it's still in the unconfirmed stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5826
It is my understanding that a sagging electric overhead wire caused a fire in the roof of the Camp Grant which was put out by the local fire department. Then of course, all the rain that occurred in northern Illinois after that, which poured into the now open roof, did not help matters any.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:15 am
Posts: 718
Location: Illinois
Of course there is no way any such car could be burned for scrap nowadays.

The car has further deteriorated since the Haley Tower Society agreed to take it. They no longer feel that they can pursue the project. Which is quite understandable in my opinion.

Much of the further damage occured in the last year following the agreement, with them being unable to orchestrate a fast move and IRM volunteer resources limited as to what could be devoted to a project moving elsewhere.
So I am unaware of any final decision on its fate. I have seen cars in worse shape brought back to life, but make no mistake - this would be a PROJECT. And could best be done at a site that could provide shelter as many parts of this would have to be opened up and exposed for repairs.

It is a shame as I hate to see any old car as this lost forever. If anyone is genuinely interested speak up fast, to get it moved and at least tarped before winter. Even if you are only going to dismantle it for parts.

It is detrucked and loaded on a TTX flatcar, needing only tie downs to be ready to move. No crane charges at our end.

Bob Kutella


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Hammond, WI
Thanks for the info on this car. My information source is not a very reliable one sometimes, and was wondering what the real story was.

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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:56 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 155
Boyd Owens wrote:
I was just informed that Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant (former Milwaukee Terre Haute) has been officially abandoned at IRM by the Terre Haute, IN group that owned it. Rumor is that IRM is going to burn and scrap it as soon as possible. Can anyone at IRM confirm or deny this? Thanks.


As Mr. Hicks pointed out, we have yet to "officially" notfiy IRM one way or the other. In fact we do not "officially" own the car either. There is nothing in writing from either party transferring ownership, just a letter from us expressing an interest in it. So, we haven't abandoned anything

It should also be noted that IRM's General Manager, Nick Kallas notified us of the recent fire damage in late July and at that time gave us the option to back out of the deal, no questions asked.

Our board of directors is pondering this option.

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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:53 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5826
This discussion of the Camp Grant/Terre Haute got me to wondering. How much HEAVYWEIGHT Milwaukee Road passenger equipment still exists besides this car?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 155
Les Beckman wrote:
This discussion of the Camp Grant/Terre Haute got me to wondering. How much HEAVYWEIGHT Milwaukee Road passenger equipment still exists besides this car?

Les


We are wondering about the same thing.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1836
Location: Southern California
Question --

Is this as I believe a car that was owned and operated by the Milwaukee and not a Pullman owned and operated car?

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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:18 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:15 am
Posts: 718
Location: Illinois
I am not the expert but many Pullman cars in our collection were picked up by the using railroads after the antitrust activity against Pullman in the late 1940's. Wasn't it common for the railroads to buy the equipment and lease it back to Pullman for operation? So the answer you are looking for may depend on the date in question.

The real life CAMP GRANT was a training camp near Rockford, IL on or near a MILW line; and of course, the MILW Chicago Terre Haute and Southeastern served the Indiana namesake city.


Bob Kutella


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:56 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:42 am
Posts: 404
Location: Haslett, Michigan USA
The interior of the Terre Haute was (before the partial demolition and recent fire) pure Milwaukee Road: all wood, so I presume it must have been sold by Pullman at an early date as obsolete and converted in the Milwaukee shops. The previous owners of the car showed me a picture of it in a book, but I don't recall how it was painted or lettered. In my limited travels, I don't recall ever seeing another Milwaukee Road heavyweight. Maybe the company was aggressive about scrapping them in favor of its lightweight fleet.

- Aarne Frobom


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1836
Location: Southern California
The name CAMP GRANT does not show up as a Pullman heavyweight. It is not among the heavyweight Plan 2585D (10sec-1DRm-2Cmpt) from 1921 that were named after military camps.

As of 1915 the Milwaukee Road was operating its own sleeping cars, sometimes in a pool with Pullman on through routes. At sometime later it went over to the Pullman Company for sleeping cars.

Brian Norden

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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 155
Brian Norden wrote:
The name CAMP GRANT does not show up as a Pullman heavyweight. It is not among the heavyweight Plan 2585D (10sec-1DRm-2Cmpt) from 1921 that were named after military camps.

As of 1915 the Milwaukee Road was operating its own sleeping cars, sometimes in a pool with Pullman on through routes. At sometime later it went over to the Pullman Company for sleeping cars.

Brian Norden


It's original name as a 12-1 was "Harlowton" built in 1910 Pullman Lot 3787 Plan 2477-C for MILW to a non-Pullman design. They used more structural steel than Pullman was using at that time.

The Camp Grant name came after conversion to a parlor/solarium car in 1931(?).

The MRHA guys say there is a sister car on a ranch in Montana, minus its trucks.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Milwaukee Pullman Camp Grant
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1836
Location: Southern California
Thanks for the information.

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