Does anybody happen to know if there are any ex Southern Pacific or Union Pacific Harriman coaches available? Or really, any clerestory coaches? I know that a lot of tourist lines ended up with Harrimans and clerestory commuter coaches, I'm just wondering if any are for sale.

Thanks, Taylor

thrush@smt-net.com

I know that the Grand Canyon Railway in Williams, Arizona has three or four Southern Pacific Harriman commuter coaches that have been partly stripped. They are not in very good shape, but are probably restorable. Whether GCRY wants to keep them for parts for its fleet of operable SP cars or not I don't know.

As for railroad-roof cars, I would suggest Lackawanna cars. Boonton branch coaches with open platforms are around, although I don't know of any offhand that are for sale. There are several large concentrations of Lackawanna electric MU cars (which make pretty good tourist-line coaches) around the country. Two that come to mind are the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville, Indiana and the Boone & Scenic Valley Railway in Boone, Iowa. Perhaps one of these organizations would be able to help you, or at least suggest another organization that could.

Frank,

Thanks for the info, I'm going to check in on these lines and see what else is out there as well.

Thanks Again, Taylor

thrush@smt-net.com

The Great Western Railway had some UP cars at Loveland when I was last there in 1994. Not sure of their status today, however.



bobyar2001@yahoo.com

Thanks Bob, I'll check in with them too.

Thanks Again, Taylor

thrush@smt-net.com

> The Great Western Railway had some UP cars
> at Loveland when I was last there in 1994.
> Not sure of their status today, however.

I believe the cars at Loveland were donated to the North Alabama Railroad Museum and are slowly being prepared for shipment east by a couple of dedicated volunteers.



AMaples@aol.com

> I believe the cars at Loveland were donated
> to the North Alabama Railroad Museum and are
> slowly being prepared for shipment east by a
> couple of dedicated volunteers.

Does anyone know why a bunch of Union Pacific cars are going to North Alabama Railroad Museum? Why would an organization in Alabama want equipment from out of their area?

I know of a west coast museum that had made contact about one of these cars. Money was wanted for the car (sorry no donation). Then we heard that the car was donated to the folks in Alabama. Did the Alabama folks have some inside connection?

BN

bnorden@gateway.net

I am not acquainted with the details. I do know that NARM happens to have a member who lives out that way who approached the railroad.

Alan

AMaples@aol.com

Did the Alabama folks have
> some inside connection?

Yes, a member who had worked for the GW and was willing to spend a lot of his personal time to get those cars prepared for movement.



drgw0579@home.net

> Did the Alabama folks have

> Yes, a member who had worked for the GW and
> was willing to spend a lot of his personal
> time to get those cars prepared for
> movement.
The member works for BNSF. 3 cars are UP 1 is CB&Q.Better off in Alabama,on display in a museum,than having vandals work on them in a rail yard.

BMe1062114@aol.com

The soon-to-reopen Mt Rainier Scenic owns 3, but one is open air

Yes, 1 of the 3 ex-SP "Commute" coaches that MRSR acquired was converted to an open air car as the #681, the other 2 are the #901 Elbe and #902 Mineral, and all 3 cars came from the Oregon, Pacific & Eastern down in Roseburg. I do not have the original SP #2085-#2159 series numbers for any of these 3.

There are a lot of the 72-IC Class "Commute" coaches scattered about, as detailed in the following thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37467

It is a minor technical detail, but the Southern Pacific arch roof suburban coaches are not “Harrimans”. In general, while most of us understand the term “Harriman” the more proper term was “arch roof Common Standard”. Even better if you include the class number...

The Common Standard design cars, designed jointly by Southern Pacific, Union Pacific with input from other Harriman controlled roads (Illinois Central and Alton) had a number of specific construction features, and used common appliances including trucks, brake systems, draft gear, step wells and doors. Visual design feathers beyond the arch roof including a lack of belt rail, letter boards which extend over the doors. They were designed for long distance service, although a few ended up in San Francisco/San Jose commute service (along with prototype steel coach 1806, which also ended up in the commute pool).

The Suburban Coaches were designed after Harriman’s death, and after the courts had separated the UP and SP/CP, and were not part of the common joint design… and had belt rails and letterboards that ended at the doors. Unseen are differences in mechanical systems. I once interviewed an SP carman, who worked in San Francisco, and was adamant about the differences, as someone who had to maintain “Suburban”, “Harriman+, and the lone “Steel” (prototype steel car 1804) cars.

Adding to the confusion, there were “Harriman” common standard wood passenger cars…

Several years ago, on behalf of the Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City, I contacted Grand Canyon hoping to buy trucks from or entire suburban coaches, which at that time were out of service, or were only used for Polar Express. At that time they said that they were not for sale, and were being held for possible use, particularly for Polar Express.

Coach #901 "Elbe" is nee-SP #2141, Pullman lot #4729. This information was found stamped on the top edge of the only original door in the entire car, the electrical cabinet door. So far I have been unable to find any trace of an original number on or within coach #902. It is undergoing a complete rehab inside and out and something may yet turn up in the process.

The open-air car #681 lost whatever might have had information stamped or painted on it many decades ago when it was converted from a coach at Cottage Grove. Fun Fact: the car appears briefly in a video on YouTube taken during the filming of "Emperor of the North." Apparently it made a very nice camera platform.

What became of the four (or so) "Harriman" coaches that the old Heber Creeper had? I assume that they were sold to the museum in Herderson, NV in the early '90's. Are they still there?