I believe he is talking about Paulsen Spence. I don't know much about his operation, but his goal was to build some kind of all-steam-powered belt line around New Orleans. I was not aware that his collection included two NKP Hudsons. I thought it was only smaller engines. One of his engines wound up at Stone Mountain, Ga., and GM&N 425, now in PA, was part of his collection.

The 2174 was used on an excursion that ran from Roanoke to Iaeger on July 11, 1959. From Roanoke to Bluefield, the train was handled by Class A 1240 and from Bluefied to Iaeger and return the 2174 pulled the train, with the 1240 taking over for the return from Bluefield to Roanoke. I believe it was a 14 car train with three open gons on the rear. The only run-by was with the 2174 coming out of a tunnel and across a huge trestle (Cedar Fork?). I'm glad I was aboard that one!

The trip had been billed as having the 611 but response for tickets was so great that extra cars were added and the articulateds substituted. Some of the fans were disappointed not to get the 611 but looking back now, this was a very rare opportunity to ride behind both the A and Y6. It was a long day, leaving Roanoke around 8 am and retuning after 10 pm and well worth it! I think the fare was $ 14.00.
-Jim Herron

Yes, it was Paulsen Spence. TRAINS magazine ran an article many years ago on his operation that listed all the locomotives. In our video, "Glory Machines Volume 5" we have footage of some of the engines in operation, including a shot showing Mr. Spence in the cab of one engine and waving.
The scenes were shot just one day before he left on a business trip during which he had a heart attack and died. The footage was shot on 16mm by C. W. Witbeck and shows a couple of the Mississippi Central 2-8-2's and the Red River & Gulf 4-4-0 which had been renumbered Louisiana Eastern 1.

-Jim Herron

Spence had three NKP Hudsons; one was, for some reason, shipped to a business he owned in Walkill, NY (on NYC's Walkill Valley Branch between Kingston and Campbell Hall, NY) and was photographed on the siding adjacent to that building. It was white-lined with the main rods off, but otherwise intact and looking OK. The company still exists-- Spence Engineering, a maker of specialty controls for industrial process and HVAC applications. It is unclear whether this particular Hudson was shipped south to be scrapped with the rest of the locomotives at the Louisiana Eastern property.

To set the record straight and dispel the myths about this, someone really ought to do a comprehensive history about Spence and his collection, and the aftermath. There are still people who have first-hand knowledge of the whole thing, but it's been almost 45 years.....

Paulsen Spence, and his operation was the Louisiana Eastern, a privately-owned road that served his gravel pit operation. That he assembled a large collection of steam locomotive is a fact; that they were (with a few exceptions) cut up after his death is a fact. As to what exactly his vision was and what exactly happened with his estate after his death I have heard so many versions that I personally couldn't sort fact from fiction to tell you. It was before my time, and I'm afraid I don't know the 100% accurate story myself; maybe others can help you.

Here's a Web reference to get you started:

http://lrs.railspot.com/l-lerr.htm

Trains Magazine also wrote about this back in the day--see March 1963.

It was my understanding it was NHIR/VBR 5 that was scrapped as a parts engine to overhaul 9. Both were Army WWII 0-6-0's

Paulsen Spence. The webpage below has some pictures of his collection; and tells a little more about his Louisiana Eastern Railroad.

His dream was to build a railroad along the route of what is now I-20 today; bypassing New Orleans.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Its Paulsen Spence, Greg. Much of what happened, supposedly, was because his family felt he cared about the locos more than them --- and because he, like so many, did not stipulate for there safe-keeping in his will. In addition, I believe the Illinois Central, his only outlet, wouldn't allow the engines to be switched out, either. I know there was a couple GTW 0-6-0's, and trying to find and all time list has proved to be difficult. However, I have figured out that he had:

THREE NKP Hudson's: #171, #172, and #173. The fourth of course went to St. Louis, where it still resides (#170?) . I have a VERY big attachment to #173 --- I have a picture of my grandfather at the age of 8 on its pilot with his boyhood friend at an exhibition in Cleveland.

Others may now of what else there was.

TJ

I would second that opinion. In addition, such an FAQ page could include reasonable opinions as to what could have been done to prevent the scrappings. There are valuable lessons to be learned here for present and future preservation efforts. Perhaps one of our legal experts could opine on potential legal remedies. In addition, suggestions on raising funding on short notice could be contained there. A third avenue would be suggestions on how effective use of media/public opinion might have made a difference. A fourth avenue: in this case, appeals to the British Consulate. Fifth avenue-understand why the new owners of the scrapyard wanted $$$ fast-were they facing an overdue tax bill or what.

I realize that in situations like this, sometimes it just boils down to human shortcomings-but sometimes not. RYPN doesn't exist to flame people/institutions; it exists (in part) facilitate the railway preservation movement.

F. Nelson Blount did indeed attempt to save Paulsen Spence's Lousiana Eastern. As a personal experience, I rode behind GM&N 4-6-2 #425 on the Valley Forge Scenic RR in the mid-1960's (I'd have to check my old slides for the year) and ended up telling Nelson about it when we discussed my "steam vacation" shortly thereafter. Nelson's response was "I owned that engine", and he proceeded to tell me that he'd made arrangements to acquire the entire Spence collection. At the time he offered no detailed explanation of why the deal fell through other than saying it was too expensive for him to move the collection.

Ironically, within the past few months, I had a conversation with Robert W. Adams, Blount's early superintendant for Steamtown operations in New Hampshire and Vermont; Bob confirmed that Nelson did indeed have the Spence collection committed to him, and the reason he didn't get it was because the connecting carrier would not allow the locomotives to be moved on their own wheels without them first being serviced by the connecting carrier's shops. The connecting carrier claimed the Soence collection suffered from "rusty journals", and wanted big bucks to rectify the problems. Blount's personnel who inspected the collection said the journal problem was no more than a little surface rust on some of the engines (others had recently been in LE service!) which could easily be corrected by Blount's people, but the conecting carrier refused to budge.

Steamtown did save a lot of parts and hardware from the scrapped collection--some of which is undoubtedly helping keep steam alive today. In retrospect, it's probably not the worst thing in the world that Blount didn't save the Spence collection (as well as a number of other locomotives that he wanted or could have had). The Spence collection would have nearly doubled the size of the Steamtown collection at the time, creating a space problem even at the then-developing Riverside site. In the long term, the fate of the equipment would have been no better off than the rest of the Steamtown collection--though I must admit that maybe one or two locomotives might have been restored to steam over the years as the Spence collection was said the be in good mechanical condtion.

The late Edgar T. Mead, Jr. made a request to the C&O for the 2-8-2 and a 2-8-4 from Russel shortly before they were scrapped. The C&O's response was that the locomotive were "unavailable". I wonder if other museums were turned down as well?

Actually, it was NH&I/VBR #7 that was scrapped at New Hope. I remember it sitting way up at the extreme end of track, looking very shabby. I don't know what the condition of its boiler was.

I find this thread very painful to read. I'm also seriously into WW2 American vehicles and aircraft, and sometimes hear of a Jeep or airplane being wrecked. Every so often, some lunatic who really isn't type-rated in that airplane takes up a rare fighter and plows a field with it. I've personally gotten rides on two types of WW2 airplanes which are now "extinct" as flying examples because someone didn't know how to keep them in the air.
Steam engines, even when they derail, often don't destroy themselves like that and serious accidents that cause substantial damages are almost unheard of (Gettysburg's boiler explosion and the 611 almost derailing in that swamp notwithstanding). The closest you could realistically come is to have a crown sheet failure or a serious derailment at speed on an embankment or bridge. Otherwise, the scrapper's torch is the biggest killer of locomotives. Thankfully, the torch hasn't gotten a lot of use in the past three decades.

Good God. I had never heard of this. What I don't get is how come nobody has been able to find pictures of these engines either just before or during scrapping. I can't believe nobody would have gotten a photo as late as 1975. "Steam in the 60s" is a great book (as are most of Ron Ziel's books) for what the preservation scene was like back then. There's a lot on Jensen and Paulson in his books. Otherwise, I had never heard of Paulson. I found the steamlocomotive.com article on Jensen very interesting. I'd always had the impression, based on what I'd read, that Jensen was a stubborn old coot that wouldn't do anything for his engines, and allowed them to be scrapped out of sheer stubbornness. Apparently, the truth was nowhere near that. I can't imagine how hard all of that must have been for him, to go through all that, and watch everything crumble around him. It almost sounds like very few people had any intention of ever helping him, as if everyone (including parts of the railfan community) let him down. I found the "competition" part of the story a particularly good lesson for all to learn. Too many options for the Chicago-based fans appears to have contributed to the eventual demise of at least one steam locomotive. Jensen threw a party nobody showed up for. To me, nothing is more sad than that. I'm surprised he didn't die from a heart attack earlier in life from all that stress.
It's amazing the things I've learned since getting onto this board, but I had no idea that so many steam engines have been scrapped in the US in my lifetime (and I was born in 1969)! It made me sick to my stomach to read where so many steam locomotives have been scrapped in recent years. I hadn't heard of any of them other than the ill-fated 5629. What gives me the chills is thinking about the basket-case steam engines I have seen in the past few years, and wondering if any of them will be cut up in the future. I know a few locally that some folks might think scrapping would be a better fate.
It's not. Even a rust bucket could be stablized for future preservation. Once it's gone, it's GONE.

So, what then are we prepared to do to save the American built steam locomotives available for sale in Cuba? Reckon we will be having a whine and cheese fest about that in a couple more years?

dave

Messers Laepple and Mulligan:
I'm sorry, I got the numbers reversed. NHIR 7 was scrapped in 1976, NHIR 9 survives. The tenders may have been swapped at that time.