It is currently Fri Dec 06, 2024 3:03 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11699
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
PMC wrote:
psa188 wrote:
Randy Gustafson wrote:
But a P40 or 42 has no afterlife, no better than an AEM7 or an E60.


What about the ex-Amtrak P40s now with CDOT?

And a pair of AEM7s had at least a short afterlife with Caltrain.

Those were essentially the same jobs they had with Amtrak, 70mph running. I think he means on short lines or excursion trains where they will be bobbing along on class 1 or 2 track, as with most older units that survive in service. I think the evidence is he is right. The exception might be GCRR, which could use the HP and speed they offer.


No way, Jose.

They got exposed to the Amtrak GEs when an AAPRRCO train (or two) showed up on the line.

The real reason Amtrak (and now NJ Transit) F40s run on the line now is because they're easily regeared to "F40FH" freight gearing to handle the 3% grades at each end of the line and lower speeds on the rest of the line (40 mph speed limit, I think). Can the GE P40s be regeared? I would think so, but never assume......


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:30 pm
Posts: 187
Location: NH Shoreline
Overmod wrote:
Perhaps we should discuss the differences in saving a P40 vs. a P42. One big point of difference for 'historic operation' is the brake system -- the P40s being to my knowledge much simpler, but the P42s inherently having blended braking 'standard' but involving much more early-Nineties computerized operation. I know we've had a number of discussions about how complicated and perhaps unsustainable the units from the '80s were -- this is a higher level still.


The P40's and P42's are a nearly identical locomotive, with two major differences -- the P42's are equipped with a NYAB CCB1 electronic air brake system, and an electronic fuel injection system for the FDL diesel engine. The CCB1 air brake system is no longer supported by NYAB/Knorr, and as a result, passenger railroads such as Amtrak, Metro-North and others are now looking at upgrading this air brake system to the more modern and supportable Knorr CCB2 system to extend the life of the locomotive. Both model locomotives use blended brake, which is the utilization of dynamic brakes in conjunction with a service brake application as controlled by the automatic brake handle.

As the P40's have a 26L brake system with a 30CW desktop brake valve, plus a mechanical governor driven FDL diesel engine, in my opinion, this is the better of the two locomotive models to be preserved for operation. The weakness of these locomotives are two things. First is the locomotive carbody which has been observed to suffer from a high degree of rust and rot as these locomotives age. As the locomotive carbody is of a monocoque design in which there is no true platform of the locomotive, but rather the entire locomotive carbody IS the platform, there has been frequent discussion by those of us in the industry as to the durability of the carbody into the future with continued stress and fatigue from daily operation. It is a definite cause for concern. The second big weakness of these locomotives is in the design of the trucks. Both Amtrak's and Metro-North's fleet of locomotives have experienced an on-going issue of stress cracks in the truck frames, requiring the removal and repair of these truck frames to allow for continuing service. Any organization that wishes to preserve a P40 locomotive for continued operation, it would be recommended to have at least one spare complete truck frame on hand to mitigate this issue and allow for continuing operation of the locomotive while making repairs to the removed cracked truck frame.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:10 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 1070
Location: MA
We already had enough trouble with people going into midlife crisis mode when the F40PH was brought up for preservation and a dime a dozen. Best part was parts were plenty and easy to find since they were basically
GP40-2. The Genesis series is a mess of computers and hard to find parts. Best bet would be to have it as a static display or as an NPCU. May also want to look at the ones that pulled the presidential inaugural train as It has a big public interest story.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2024 3:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2475
It may be a matter of price, if a Genesis unit can be had for a significant discount of the price of an F40 I'm sure excursion operators might take a look. I don't know what the asking price for used Genesis units is at the moment, but there certainly doesn't seem to be any demand for them, other than the oil industry for their GE traction motors, whereas I have heard that F40s are in demand and that Larry's wants a lot to lease them.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2418
P40's/P42's sound a lot like NYC Niagaras; so specialized for a narrow operating envelope that they have no chance of a second service life.

So if there is preservation, units will have to be acquired with that in mind; and static preservation (if I understand the issue with monocoque bodies; they are like aircraft in that every operation induces fatigue that will render the thing unsafe to operate).


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
Posts: 327
Location: Alberta, Canada
How's this for an interesting afterlife:

A native-owned shortline in northern Manitoba, the Keewatin Railway, has purchased some of these GE units and at least two ex-LIRR bilevel coaches to re-equip their mixed train service. They will supplement or replace a handful of tattered ex-VIA/CN blue and yellow cars and some equally worn out 4-axle EMD and MLW freight units.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ8zCnEeZ24

Not sure what speed Keewatin's track is rated for, but I suspect it's closer to 10 mph than 100......

_________________
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:57 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2475
Well, I'll be, I figured someone would give it a try, but assumed it would be an established operation that knows the challenges with those units. I hope those guys know what they're in for all the way up there.

They apparently were worked on at the Wabtec shop in Albia IA, earlier this year, Butch Getz photo there (click to expand).


Attachments:
IMG_0052cc.JPG
IMG_0052cc.JPG [ 242.74 KiB | Viewed 750 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:38 pm
Posts: 2
To be honest, grabbing a P40 would be advantageous for a lot of the mainline steam groups. A good chunk of the converted P40 fleet has been upgraded with PTC, has HEP, and they're "Amtrak Certified" at the moment. With how insurance and rail operators are treating mainline steam, having those units might help a little in getting Big Steam out there in the public


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is it time to preserve an Amtrak Genesis P40?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2475
Here is a poor cell phone video that shows what the consist looks like: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PCumszT36U8 I hope in the future someone can catch it running at track speed, which sounds like it is 10MPH. I'll bet those units won't like running in the first or second notch all the time.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 86 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: